Build or Buy, HK91?
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Thread: Build or Buy, HK91?

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    Default Build or Buy, HK91?

    I'm new to Hk rifles, so plz excuse my ignorance. First, is it better to build a HK91 clone or buy one (PTR91GI)? When building, what cost range would I be looking at? I'm familiar with M14 (LRB) and M1A(Springfield) when it comes to build or buy, and yes, there is a difference. Just wondering if I'm looking at the same kind of differences, in price and quality, with the Hk platform. Also, who does builds and what should I be looking for? I'm wanting a good battle rifle, never know when your gonna need one, and one that I can trust to last even in a worst case scenario. SHTF kind of thing.

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    Probably more cost-effective to purchase a factory rifle, unless you can obtain "parts/labor" inexpensively!!!

    Tony

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    I have both an original and a PTR.. the PTR is a great value
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    If you figure the going rate for a nice parts kit, that is worth paying a builder to build, with original barrel is over $500, plus $200 for the PTR receiver, plus >$100 for compliance parts, you are almost at the price point of a new PTR without even paying for the builder to build it.

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    if you are going to own only one, have it built. if it is the first of many, buy it because you will want the next one built...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis762 View Post
    I'm new to Hk rifles, so plz excuse my ignorance. First, is it better to build a HK91 clone or buy one (PTR91GI)? When building, what cost range would I be looking at? I'm familiar with M14 (LRB) and M1A(Springfield) when it comes to build or buy, and yes, there is a difference. Just wondering if I'm looking at the same kind of differences, in price and quality, with the Hk platform. Also, who does builds and what should I be looking for? I'm wanting a good battle rifle, never know when your gonna need one, and one that I can trust to last even in a worst case scenario. SHTF kind of thing.
    Are you sure .308 caliber would be best? I'd imagine with your .308 experience with the M14/M1A experience you are very familiar with the recoil. To my knowledge no industrialized nation uses .308/7.62X51 as their standard rifle caliber. Personally I would think that .223/5.56X45 would be a better caliber choice as far as cost. I find recoil to be much lower with .223 than with .308. Also the price of ammo is around 1/2 as much so training costs would be much lower. You could "roll the dice" on a C93 for $500. The issue with the C93 has been bolt gap due to barrel diameter, pressing, and pinning. The search function can give you much more detail. A new RCM cold hammer forged barrel is $225. If the C93 needed a new barrel, would think repressing the new barrel, paddle mag install, and refinish wouldn't be that much more.

    Custom done anything is always more than buying the standard off the shelf. Of course a custom build would tend to have much higher quality, but what is your price point? A .308 build will tend be much more than a .223 build as parts are more money. If you are looking for scoped precision type rifle, like with any other platform, it will be very pricey. Please let us know more detail of what you ultimately want from this roller locked rifle.

    Scott

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    actually, 308 parts are far more readily available. something like 60 countries adopted the rifle in 308, only 2 or 3 adopted it in 223.

    PTR receivers are also much easier to obtain than SW receivers.

    if you are looking for a reliable factory build off the shelf, PTR has a lot more going for it with their 308 builds, than Century does with the 223 rifles they are turning out. a very high percentage of the Century rifles need to be re-barreled. a very small percentage of PTR rifles are now exhibiting problems. also, PTR does a better job of standing behind their warranty, in my opinion.

    as for 308 recoil, if he is used to his M1A, a HK91 clone with proper bolt gap will not recoil any more. with a heavy buffer it will recoil the same or maybe a little less. i would contend that if 308 recoil is beating you up, and you aren't using a collapsable stock or a FA sear, you are holding the rifle down too far in the pocket of your shoulder.

    i shoot A LOT of 308, also a lot of 762x54R from Finn Mosins, and i do fine. i typically do 120 rounds of 308 per session, or 60 rounds of 762x54R from a bolt gun, per session.

    agreed that 223 and 762x39 recoil is imperceptible, but i don't think that should be the deciding criteria
    Last edited by chauncey; 06-12-2012 at 12:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chauncey View Post
    actually, 308 parts are far more readily available. something like 60 countries adopted the rifle in 308, only 2 or 3 adopted it in 223.

    PTR receivers are also much easier to obtain than SW receivers.

    if you are looking for a reliable factory build off the shelf, PTR has a lot more going for it with their 308 builds, than Century does with the 223 rifles they are turning out. a very high percentage of the Century rifles need to be re-barreled. a very small percentage of PTR rifles are now exhibiting problems. also, PTR does a better job of standing behind their warranty, in my opinion.

    as for 308 recoil, if he is used to his M1A, a HK91 clone with proper bolt gap will not recoil any more. with a heavy buffer it will recoil the same or maybe a little less. i would contend that if 308 recoil is beating you up, and you aren't using a collapsable stock or a FA sear, you are holding the rifle down too far in the pocket of your shoulder.

    i shoot A LOT of 308, also a lot of 762x54R from Finn Mosins, and i do fine. i typically do 120 rounds of 308 per session, or 60 rounds of 762x54R from a bolt gun, per session.

    agreed that 223 and 762x39 recoil is imperceptible, but i don't think that should be the deciding criteria
    You are right that many more countries did have a G3 in .308. But that was in the late 50's early 60's. Wikipedia lists 15 countries that used a 33/33 variant. My statement "To my knowledge no industrialized nation uses .308/7.62X51 as their standard rifle caliber." has do do with today, not 50 years ago. For me an average range session is more like 300-800 rds of 5.56X45. I find, the more I pull the trigger, the better I get pulling the trigger and hitting what I am trying to hit. At today's ammo price, I would imagine I'd spend less on 300 rds of .223 than would be spent on 160 rds of .308. If that is what you choose to shoot, more power to you.

    In the OP, the basic premiss was more of a general purpose rifle. My experience has been that a standard .308 rifle is heavier and longer than a standard .223 rifle. Certainly, .308 from a rest can reach out further than .223. But in close quarters, and short distances, .223 rifle is lighter with quicker follow up shots. My understanding is the Germans, during WW II, did a great deal of research on engagement distances. Most engagements are 300 yards or less. That is why they developed the first assault rifle which used a medium power cartridge. So unless you live in an open desert a medium power rifle cartridge would tend to have more advantages than a full power cartridge in most situations. That is why every industrialized nation that I'm aware of uses a medium power rifle round for their standard rifle cartridge. Of course whatever caliber/rifle you wish to shoot, I think that is great. YMMV.

    Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottinthegrove View Post
    You are right that many more countries did have a G3 in .308. But that was in the late 50's early 60's. Wikipedia lists 15 countries that used a 33/33 variant. My statement "To my knowledge no industrialized nation uses .308/7.62X51 as their standard rifle caliber." has do do with today, not 50 years ago. For me an average range session is more like 300-800 rds of 5.56X45. I find, the more I pull the trigger, the better I get pulling the trigger and hitting what I am trying to hit. At today's ammo price, I would imagine I'd spend less on 300 rds of .223 than would be spent on 160 rds of .308. If that is what you choose to shoot, more power to you.

    In the OP, the basic premiss was more of a general purpose rifle. My experience has been that a standard .308 rifle is heavier and longer than a standard .223 rifle. Certainly, .308 from a rest can reach out further than .223. But in close quarters, and short distances, .223 rifle is lighter with quicker follow up shots. My understanding is the Germans, during WW II, did a great deal of research on engagement distances. Most engagements are 300 yards or less. That is why they developed the first assault rifle which used a medium power cartridge. So unless you live in an open desert a medium power rifle cartridge would tend to have more advantages than a full power cartridge in most situations. That is why every industrialized nation that I'm aware of uses a medium power rifle round for their standard rifle cartridge. Of course whatever caliber/rifle you wish to shoot, I think that is great. YMMV.

    Scott
    Yes that was back when marksmanship was more important than spray and pray

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    I already have my .223 rifles, now I'm just trying to get my .308 rifles built up.

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