HKPRO Forums banner

Heckler & Koch is apparently bankrupt.

54K views 166 replies 67 participants last post by  lakelandman 
#1 ·
#2 · (Edited)
This is what they get for neglecting the US civilian market.

They threw us a bone with colored frame VP’s. Oh boy.

What the hell are they even doing at the Georgia plant?

Where are the picatinny railed USP’s? The long slide VP9 complete pistol? The optics-ready anything?

Assault weapon ban sunset in 2004. 15 years later, where are the un-neutered G36 and UMP’s?

I’m a big fan of Tom Bostic but I despise GSG9. (Todd Bailey)

Where is the semi-only MP7?

Bring back some classics and hard-to-gets in rotating limited runs. USP Match anyone? Maritime MK23?

Something I’d love to see is factory made SBR’s. For the civilian market. So people don’t have to engrave and Form 1.
 
#5 ·
google translation

Accountancy firm KPMG sees a risk at risk at risk in stock, according to the report. There is talk of "material uncertainty surrounding the continuation of business activity."

The SWR had also reported on this. According to this, Heckler & Koch's debt now adds up to 380 million euros.

The taz also reports on economic uncertainties. Read the 2018 Company Report under the heading "Essential uncertainty surrounding the continuation of business activity." The auditors point out, above all, the risk of a lack of liquidity. The liquidity targets, it is said, "can only be achieved if production processes are sustainably improved in such a way that the planned output volumes can be achieved on the way to a more favorable product mix on the margins side."

What would insolvency mean for Oberndorf? schwarzwaelder-bote.de has listened to the city centre: It goes on to say that restructuring is needed to achieve the necessary return. "If this does not succeed, there are other financing requirements, for which external sources are then required. If external sources cannot be used appropriately, there is a risk that is at risk. "

In mid-May, the company's employees had agreed to an increase in the working week from 35 to 37.5 hours, and in addition, this year and next, they will forgo the usual one-off payment of 400 euros.
 
#11 ·
Not exactly breaking news by any means. High debt load for ages. They have been operating at a loss so I'm not sure how the situation would have changed magically. They are an unpopular industry in a very expensive place to manufacture anything. Lord Byron said the prophet for the future is the past. Sig Sauer almost bankrupt. Big increase in production and design in USA. Now Sig Sauer Gmbh is almost non-existent while Sig USA is booming. I believe they have over 1000 US employees. Maybe 100 in Germany. They saw probably the only way to succeed and took it which is selling to..... American civilians. You can't get rich selling service pistols to border patrol and police departments at the lowest possible bid AFTER you have jumped through all the hoops to include all the stuff they asked for like the P6 hammer with the cut in it for example. I know there are big differences between the two companies history wise but I think anything but smaller outfits making fancy shotguns or rifles in Germany (or most of the EU) will have a tough go of things.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
 
#14 ·
I question the accuracy of the information contained in the link from the original post. About 2 years ago HK started releasing their financials via their website to increase transparency to all. You can read for yourself here: https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/ir/key-figures.html

HK’s financial debts are no where near where they once were since they restructured their debts about a year ago and things have improved considerably.
 
#16 ·
2018 was better than 2017 but still a loss of several million. But I think the newspaper article grabbed a large number out of thin air to get some attention. Luckily for governments and large businesses finance is not the same as your household budget.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
 
#19 ·
If you read about what it is like to be in German industry you will understand why it may have trouble turning a huge profit. Import and export laws have much to do with it also hence Chinese made Mercedes and American made BMWs. If skilled craftsman making high quality products were all it took to win they would not be where they are at this point in time. I don't see a super successful future without HK USA expansion. Also, many many American companies and workers are quite capable of building anything that Germans can at the same quality levels.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
 
#20 ·
If you read about what it is like to be in German industry you will understand why it may have trouble turning a huge profit. Import and export laws have much to do with it also hence Chinese made Mercedes and American made BMWs. If skilled craftsman making high quality products were all it took to win they would not be where they are at this point in time. I don't see a super successful future without HK USA expansion. Also, many many American companies and workers are quite capable of building anything that Germans can at the same quality levels.
That is what happens when you "pimp out" your industries!!! :wink:

Tony
 
#24 ·
I'm not saying they shouldn't adapt. I absolutely think they should. Id love to have a factory RMR cut on my P30 and when it is released I'll buy it. Im just saying my opinion is they are not going to dig out real fast doing business as usual IN Germany. HK USA can be the difference.

Like I said look at Sig. P series pistols exported from Germany we're not filling the coffers. How many times can the German police districts change their sidearm? Even if they do you are competing against Walther and HK always. Making a move to US production and expansion saved the company and made it alot of money. They werent separated until 2000 but I'd say better late than never. But let's also not forget that up until 2004 you could not even buy 15 round mags for your USP much less buy a G36 or UMP whatever people wanted HK to stop hating and sell here.

Buy what you can and ask for what you want. Don't hold your breath for an MP7. domestic handguns, semi auto ARish rifles and PCC's are probably what your going to get, because that's what Americans buy. I for one am glad to have a safe full of HK handguns not available 10 years ago.

Sent from my moto e5 play using Tapatalk
 
#27 ·
Those who know me know that I bleed HK BUT I have to agree with this statement. B&T is killing it right now, especially with sub guns. They are the future IMO. In an industry where people constantly scream for more innovation or claim that there isn't any, they need to look at B&T.
 
#29 · (Edited)
I am CONSTANTLY AMAZED at how few people actually understand how business works.

You would be surprised how many companies survive EVERY YEAR ON CASH FLOW - NOT BOTTOM LINE

If you have billions (millions) flowing through your company, chances are high that you are doing just fine.

So many folks have zero idea how many companies operate on just that principal.

CAN YOU SAY "AMAZON"??? Their 'bottom line' has not been profitable since they started (according to THEIR numbers), yet their model is changing the way business is being done.

CAN YOU SAY "CHINA"??? And their bottom line is NOT even in their wheel house. THEY are spending their money wisely. Yeah, all those ghost cities. That was a great idea, build huge cities that no one lives in, just to keep their economy afloat. When the spigot of money FLOWING THROUGH CHINA is turned off (we are on the way) guess what happens?

What happened when we cut off Japan's access to OUR OIL, back in 1939/1940? They got mad and attacked us AND DAMN NEAR ENDED the Japanese as a race, until we dropped two nuclear weapons. THAT is where this always ends up. It's OUR FAULT that nobody else can seem to make great things happen, without stealing, cheating and lying about it. It always ends in war.

And I've only been here for about four years, this time around.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hopalong
#30 ·
I am CONSTANTLY AMAZED at how few people actually understand how business works.

You would be surprised how many companies survive EVERY YEAR ON CASH FLOW - NOT BOTTOM LINE

If you have billions (millions) flowing through your company, chances are high that you are doing just fine.

So many folks have zero idea how many companies operate on just that principal.

CAN YOU SAY "AMAZON"??? Their 'bottom line' has not been profitable since they started (according to THEIR numbers), yet their model is changing the way business is being done.

CAN YOU SAY "CHINA"??? And their bottom line is NOT even in their wheel house. THEY are spending their money wisely. Yeah, all those ghost cities. That was a great idea, build huge cities that no one lives in, just to keep their economy afloat. When the spigot of money FLOWING THROUGH CHINA is turned off (we are on the way) guess what happens?

What happened when we cut off Japan's access to OUR OIL, back in 1939/1940? They got mad and attacked us AND DAMN NEAR ENDED the Japanese as a race, until we dropped two nuclear weapons. THAT is where this always ends up. It's OUR FAULT that nobody else can seem to make great things happen, without stealing, cheating and lying about it. It always ends in war.
Wow, that took a few turns, and ended up at Apocalypse City.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#33 · (Edited)
Something like this would make me happy. I'd love an ambi HK PCC - built for the civilian market - that used VP9 mags. I just really have no interest in a PCC that uses Glock mags, as I don't like or own Glock handguns.

Now that there's 20 and 30-round VP9 mags on the market, it seems like a logical step.
 
#35 ·
If H&K wants to survive, and on top of surviving, prosper, they better start doing 90% of their manufacturing here, and they better start giving the people who make them the most money (ie. the American gun buying public) what they want. Semi belt fed 7.62 and 5.56, semi pistol MP7, real 5.56 and 7.62 rifles as their customers want, not dumbed down versions for military and LE only....etc., etc.. How many semi SAW's has FN-USA sold? Has to be a few thousand at least.

The problem is, it's a mindset thing. You can't fix stupid. And when one of the owners is supposed to have said, "I don't want my guns being used in drive-by shootings in America" as a reason not to make and sell what the public wants, THAT is STUPID.

Just for the record, so called "assault weapons" are used in only 1/10th of 1% of shootings in America. That number comes from the FBI/DoJ Uniform Crime Statistics, compiled from police departments all over the country and published every 2 years.

Add up all the money that has been made since 1989 by everyone who makes and/or imports "H&K" designs. The Turks and the Paki's for imports, and what maybe 15 people in the US who presently or in the past have manufactured? MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars. I would not be surprised to find out that it breaks a billion. Or even 2.

THAT is why H&K is in trouble financially. They left money on the table for others to pick up. You never leave money on the table. You have to adapt to changing conditions in the market. You have to go where the money is. Unless you're STUPID.
 
#36 · (Edited)
wow, what happened to HIMHAWKEYE???

HE USED TO BE A MEMBER HERE, BUT THEN JUST DISAPPEARED.

Don't mess with the AGG

OH and "ASSAULT WEAPON" was simply an attack against semi auto rifles in civilian hands. Those who hate guns simply lie and tell people there is no background check, you CAN buy and leave with a full auto weapon, and, and, and... hey when you are LYING about the subject you are talking about, it really doesn't matter what the truth is, because the anti firearms crowd doesn't want ANYONE to own a way to protect them from the likes of THEM.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Those who hate guns simply lie and tell people there is no background check, you CAN buy and leave with a full auto weapon, and, and, and... hey when you are LYING about the subject you are talking about, it really doesn't matter what the truth is, because the anti firearms crowd doesn't want ANYONE to own a way to protect them from the likes of THEM.
Obama bin Lyin'..... :wink:

The time for that move has past. I think with the rise of state restrictions on guns, and the political uncertainty for 2020, it would be a huge risk to make plans to start building those kinds of guns here, especially since it would take some time and investment to get set up and running.
Sorry, disagree. There is no political uncertainty for 2020 (MHO) and the states that have any restrictions are "the usual suspects'. Time to make hay while the sun shines......
 
#50 ·
And dropped the ball on the Army subgun contract.
I have to say, I think it's the Army dropped this one. Soft body armor is so completely common that I personally would have selected the MP7. I get that they already have 9mm in inventory, but IMHO that wouldn't have been reason enough to commit to it unless they were planning on also doing a RFP for 9mm ammo that will reliably penetrate Level IIIA soft armor.

But yeah, "ball dropping". It's what they do.
 
#48 · (Edited)
B&T introduced the APC9-SD & APC45-SD into the US in 2018. I bought one of each, but unfortunately the suppressors are in jail for a few more months. Hk could have designed manufactured and offered something like this in Germany and imported it into the US. Instead they sit on their hands and contemplate what new designer colors the VP9 they should roll out in 2020. Hk is getting left in the dust!
Check out this video of the APC9-SD: https://www.guns.com/news/2018/12/07/the-rare-and-soft-shooting-brugger-thomet-apc9sd-video
 
#49 ·
WELL, AT LEAST ONE PERSON CAUGHT IT. YES, I DID THAT ON PURPOSE and it didn't 'slip by'.

Why am I not surprised it was Tony that caught it. Can't get anything past you, sir!
 
  • Like
Reactions: AGG
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top