HK433 vs XM8 vs G36 Evolution
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Thread: HK433 vs XM8 vs G36 Evolution

  1. #1
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    Default HK433 vs XM8 vs G36 Evolution

    We do know that the G36 kinda kick started the whole AR-18 based modern modular rifle. We also know of the back and forth controversy about the G36's overheating/accuracy issues. It also seemed that the XM8 had similar issues when the US Army and USMC tested it. But I've seen some videos and photos and such on line, and it's obvious that the 433 is a modernized evolution of the XM8/G36 concept. The 433's upper and lower receiver interface seems similar to the XM8's, and mechanically, the 433 (based on patent illustrations) looks like a cross between a G36/XM8 and a FN SCAR.

    The 433 has also taken things that have been added to the G36 and integrated them better, like an adjustable length of pull stock and 1913 rails. Not to mention that the 433's upper is either and aluminum extrusion or forging. That should go a long way to calming fears over the G36's overheating issues. I overall like the G36, but it is somewhat outdated compared to stuff like the FN SCAR and stuff that has been introduced following the start on the War on Terror. Even the SA80 A2 and A3 are a bit more up to date than the G36 is, which ironically the A2 and A3 versions of the SA80 were refurbished and updated by HK since 2000 to the present day.

    Also, one advantage that the 433 seems to have over the XM8 and G36 as far as field stipping is the use of captive pins, something that HK didn't get into until the MG4 and HK416. That means less to lose as far as small parts when trying to work on the rifle. It also sucks that news on the 433 has been slow since this spring when HK and Concamo did a photoshoot with several 433s featured. Granted, it does seem that the German Army doesn't see the G36 replacement program as being insanely urgent, given that a selection was due to be made by early next year. However, that being said, it's mid September now.

    So am I right or wrong in saying that this is how things have evolved with the 433 being a descendant of the G36?

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    The g36 has no more overheating issues than my car has if I redline it for an extended amount of time.

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    And I thought that the whole overheating/wandering zero issue was just an excuse by the German Government to either get discounted HK416s for the German Army or warranty claims from HK. The German Army seems to be satisfied enough that they didn't rush to replace the G36 with something else. Yes, the HK433 is better than the G36, but evolution should do that. Only things I don't like about the G36 are the separate mag well and trigger mechanism (which is integrated into one assembly on the XM8 and HK433), use of non captive pins to hold parts together, and it was introduced just before the whole 9/11 War on Terror thing showed that everyone's weapons are a bit of out date for modern professional armies.

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    We will likely never know the causes for why the overheating claim was perpetuated. It could have been a simple rumor, an uninformed claim, a government wanting new weapons, HK wanting a new contract, etc.

    Better is subjective. It is better in what regard? Without looking it up, the 433 is likely heavier. So, does that make it better? They all are just a group of firearms made by the same company and designers. Pick your poison.
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    Well, the 433 is a newer design (granted, mechanically that's a loose term given that it's basically a AR-18 that uses a gas system that was designed not by David Williams, but by Ferdinand Mannlicher in the late 1800s) that better integrates stuff like Pic rails and other features that are used on the 416 and has been shoe-horned onto the G36. Yes, the 416 is a bit heavy for a AR-15, but I'd bet that a M4 carbine that has stuff like railed handguards and such on it weighs as much or more than a 416 with an equal barrel length. Same with the 433. Because it uses an all metal receiver and has rails built into it, it should weigh more than a standard G36 with the same or similar barrel length. However, add those rails ad-hoc on a G36, it'll weigh as much or maybe more than the 433.

    And one thing that I've always held against HK rifles until the 416 was the use of non-captive pins. To me, it's just more stuff to fumble and lose when working on the rifle. Even the XM8 had non-captive pins. HK didn't start using captive pins on rifles or machine guns until the MG43/MG4 and the 416 series. At least the 433 has captive pins, unlike the G36. It's bad enough IMO that the AR-15 and AR-18 influenced rifles have cam pins and firing pin retaining pins that can get loose. That's one strength that the Steyr AUG has, that it's got a push button cam pin and a captive spring clip for the firing pin retainer.

    Granted, this is probably just me being nit-picky, but the more you look at existing firearms, you start to see stuff you'd like to change on them, such as the FN SCAR's reciprocating charging handle.

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    Just buy an HK416 and be done with it. They work 100% of the time, 100% of the time.....at least for me they do.
    A redneck's famous last words...."Hey everybody, watch this!"

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    I'd make that argument for the 416 to replace the G36 in the German Army, but the German Government and the German Army have said non. And I do think I understand why. One is cost, given that the 416 (like the FN SCAR) is relatively expensive for a GI service rifle. Also, I do think that the German Army itself favors a modernized G36 over the 416 for a couple of reasons. Namely the G36 has a folding stock and a paddle mag release, features that the German Army seems to favor in a G36 successor. Not to mention that the 433 has a quick change barrel system and a bewildering amount of options for barrel lengths and the like (some of which I think are redundant/overdoing it on HK's part). Also, I think another part of the appeal of the 433 is that it's designed to be multi-caliber, which the G36 isn't and probably won't be, even though I've heard that HK will probably design a different receiver optimized for rounds longer than 60mm in OA length (namely 7.62mm NATO/.308 Win.).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad4065 View Post
    Just buy an HK416 and be done with it. They work 100% of the time, 100% of the time.....at least for me they do.
    Again.....allow myself to ….repeat myself.....

    Jeze….this is getting redundant.
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    I think the HK433 is ugly.
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    I always felt the 416 was HKs acknowledgement that the G36 was flawed, as the two rifles compete directly with each other. The G36 was kept on primarily for the benefit of legacy customers.

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