90'000 HK416A5 for France - Page 23
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Thread: 90'000 HK416A5 for France

  1. #221
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    Yeah, the MR556 is a bit nose heavy. It's a piston gun. This is one of the reasons I went with DI. But it was noticeably better balanced than any of the other piston ARs I held when shopping around.

  2. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy88 View Post
    The MR is nose heavy compared to any DI AR because it's got more metal at the front, whereas the middle and back are virtually identical. General consensus or not, this is a fact - regardless whether you're ripped à-la-Schwarzy or not.
    that being said, tactical shooting should not be about comfort, and hence the rant "nose heavy" is a little out of context. A little gym time will balance it out and give you that sought after operator look :-)
    I currently own 4 MRs in different bbls (13", 14.5", 16.5", 16.5") and have shot thousands of rounds through them in many range scenarios, including tactical drills, classes etc. I also hunt with my 16.5" MR extensively (almost every week) - which involves not only shooting but also moving through difficult terrain, dense vegetation, stalking, carrying game etc. - and I am able to place the bullets accurately at any reasonable distance, off-hand, prone (rarely), and sitting, to get a clean kill.

    IMO the MRs are among the best (accuracy- and reliability-wise) rifles available. That being said, there are better balanced rifles out there. It's always a trade-off and I was merely stating this fact. However, some people become emotionally attached to their choice of brand (be it rifle, car or smartphone) and worship companies like HK, Glock or whatever. Myself, I'll start selling my HKs on the very day that something better becomes available.

    BTW it's funny how people jump to conclusions. I used to compete in powerlifting and still exercise regularly to maintain physical fitness. So much for the alleged upper body strength deficit ...

  3. #223
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    I put over 1500 rounds through my 416 10.4" upper on my MR556 lower this weekend and while a bit heavy all around it felt well balanced. Can't speak to the 14.5" or 16" as I haven't shot those ones in my cabinet yet. I can say my 20" 416 upper on its MR556 lower needs a bipod; it's crazy nose heavy as expected.


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  5. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr223a1 View Post
    I currently own 4 MRs in different bbls (13", 14.5", 16.5", 16.5") and have shot thousands of rounds through them in many range scenarios, including tactical drills, classes etc. I also hunt with my 16.5" MR extensively (almost every week) - which involves not only shooting but also moving through difficult terrain, dense vegetation, stalking, carrying game etc. - and I am able to place the bullets accurately at any reasonable distance, off-hand, prone (rarely), and sitting, to get a clean kill.

    IMO the MRs are among the best (accuracy- and reliability-wise) rifles available. That being said, there are better balanced rifles out there. It's always a trade-off and I was merely stating this fact. However, some people become emotionally attached to their choice of brand (be it rifle, car or smartphone) and worship companies like HK, Glock or whatever. Myself, I'll start selling my HKs on the very day that something better becomes available.

    BTW it's funny how people jump to conclusions. I used to compete in powerlifting and still exercise regularly to maintain physical fitness. So much for the alleged upper body strength deficit ...
    I agree, brand affection can cause some bias in the assessment and interpretation of facts. It's ok as long as one acknowledges this, but not when the opinion is imposed dogmatically. Having said that HK's are damn cool and I won't be selling the few ones in my collection :-)
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  6. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy88 View Post
    brand affection can cause some bias in the assessment and interpretation of facts.

    It's ok as long as one acknowledges this,
    Bias ? I ain't got no stinkin bias !



    Hell , look at my signature. It used to be about ALL HK. Not so much anymore . Having said that I'm one of HK's biggest fans. There is NO arms manufacturer today that can match the diversity of products , Engineering and Manufacturing quality that HK produces across a broad product mix .
    Having said that , there are companies that produce specific products that perform at very high levels that in some modes of operation are above HK. I'm not vs'ing or comparing.

    This is my 20" rifle that I shoot in our club High Power matches. It has a National Match profile barrel , that is 1" in dia. up to the rifle length gas block. The barrel weighs 3.2 #'s . The MR has the same profile in a 16" version.



    What amazes me on this forum is that everybody talks about the " match barrel " and the accuracy it gives. That's kinda short sighted and is missing where the jewel really lies. The barrel is SOLID to the receiver. Also , look at the back bearing surface on the bolt ( where the gas rings are typically ) .The bolt is running trued to the bore . The MR has a heavy buffer/ spring that holds the bolt in battery a smidge longer and that really helps with the accuracy. I like the MR just the way it is .

    I do have other AR's with the M4 barrel profile also. BTW , I use flat wire springs in all my AR's except my MR , and also the lightest buffer is an H1 . I run an H3 in my 10.5" SBR. it is a piston gun , as are all my rifles , and I can cycle ANY ammo on either the 3 or 4 gas setting suppressed , and no higher than 2 unsuppressed. For ANY PISTON AR to NOT have an ADJUSTABLE gas regulator is a CRIME. That one feature is so damn important on being able to control the cyclic rate of fire , especially on an SBR .



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  7. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy88 View Post
    I agree, brand affection can cause some bias in the assessment and interpretation of facts. It's ok as long as one acknowledges this, but not when the opinion is imposed dogmatically. Having said that HK's are damn cool and I won't be selling the few ones in my collection :-)
    Well, being invested as heavily* as I am in this platform, it's not like I'm selling mine right now, just wanted to make a point and got a little bit carried away ;-) but nevertheless the point still stands: MR223/556 is neither light nor extremely well balanced. It's a fact of life. That being said, it's just a little inconvenience compared to what it offers in reliability and accuracy department. I like it very much. And as a matter of fact, if I didn't like it so much, I wouldn't carry the damned thing into the woods, now would I? Not to mention hanging around this great forum and arguing with some people ;-)

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    * spare bolt heads, bolt head cam pins, firing pins, gas pistons, piston rings & various springs, pins and small parts ...

  8. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelMag View Post
    Regular force do not need to shoot suppressed, which might be the reason for the lack of AGR.
    Disagree. Regular infantry forces do a lot of room clearing and is almost always at night. Procurement just needs to catch up with the mission.


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  9. #228
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    While we are on the subject of barrel weight, Investment Grade Firearms has some interesting data on their site (don't know if it's OK to post a link here?).

  10. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr223a1 View Post
    MR223/556 is neither light nor extremely well balanced.
    Well balanced is relative term. For people that prefer rifle with mass center shifted forward it is well balanced. Also some people prefer to have rifles that are actually heavier. Both for number of reasons related to their shooting style, purpose of rifle use or just plain personal preference.

    It is like with pistols in IPSC (especially in Standard and Open) - some people prefer pistol to have heavy and long front part of frame (SPS Pelicano being ultimate example) for less muzzle flip and easier recoil management, other prefer short and light front for easier and faster target transitions.

    When people complain that HKs are too heavy or balanced forward (or do not have CL bore or whatever) my answer is, that apparently it is not right rifle for them and that buying HK is not (unfortunately I must add) mandatory. This usually ends discussion ;)
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  11. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montrala View Post
    Well balanced is relative term. For people that prefer rifle with mass center shifted forward it is well balanced.
    Everything is relative to a degree. That being said, it's not a philosophy class and, speaking in general terms, we all know what a well balanced rifle means. The presence of above quoted exceptions just proves that a general understanding of the term exists. And front heavy rifles are not within this general meaning of "well balanced". There are certainly race drivers who - for a multitude of reasons - prefer oversteer cars, the vast majority of the general public, however, don't. The same holds true for rifles & shooters, and I'm simply stating the fact. If you prefer rifles with mass center shifted forward, then more power to ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montrala View Post
    Also some people prefer to have rifles that are actually heavier. Both for number of reasons related to their shooting style, purpose of rifle use or just plain personal preference.
    Even still, it's not as much about the weight as about its distribution. MR308/762, while weighting more than MR223/556, is nevertheless better-balanced due to different mass distribution.

    Quote Originally Posted by Montrala View Post
    When people complain that HKs are too heavy or balanced forward (or do not have CL bore or whatever) my answer is, that apparently it is not right rifle for them and that buying HK is not (unfortunately I must add) mandatory. This usually ends discussion ;)
    Now, I sincerely hope a mere acknowledgment of a flaw in otherwise fine rifle doesn't amount to a betrayal of our online community ;) I would have to sell all four of my MRs then. Getting back on topic, I wonder why the guys using - but not buying - HKs in their line of work never requested swapping their - heavy enough - 416's barrels for something even more substantial and forward-balanced, something akin to MR barrel? Would it be too heavy for them? C'mon guys, seriously, you should build some muscle ... Coincidentally, the civilian A3s now come only with chrome lined barrels. Maybe the people were complaining too much ... but we all know that HK don't listen to them ... or do they?

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