Hey can you guys fill me in on the G28? - Page 3
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Thread: Hey can you guys fill me in on the G28?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by baljar View Post
    Its pointless. My initial posting is accurate, keep changing words around, the BKA Feststellungsbescheid has approved HK Sales of G28 in all variations to civlians. Because ALL that this does, "feststellen", is that the weapon is not a weapon of war from a governmentally sanctioned body. Thats why the manufacturer gets it, to say look, our FBI says its not a weapon of war, I can now export it to civilians everywhere. Thats what the document says, End of Story.
    I'm under the impression that my comments have been misconstrued as a categorical denial of any legal possibility of civilian sales of G28 variants. That's not what I was stating though. As a matter of fact, my statements were clearly indicating that it is legally possible, with certain exceptions pertaining to German firearms regulations. I'll quote myself so that you can read it again.



    Quote Originally Posted by mr223a1 View Post
    I do not believe this statement gives us the true picture of the situation either, even though it may be technically correct. What you've posted is an administrative decision of the German Federal Criminal Office, issued at the formal request of the manufacturer (HK), certifying that specific makes & models of firearms described herein, are beyond the scope of certain statutory prohibitions - nothing more and nothing less. As a matter of fact this decision specifically describes the proposed 12" and 16" bbl models as noncompliant. It is a matter of routine that the manufacturers submit their requests before even considering the introduction of a firearm to the civilian market. This in no manner implies that the manufacturer is ever actually going to produce a particular model of firearm. It just means that the manufacturer is, at most, considering the production.
    In Simple English: The guys at HK went to the BKA ("German FBI") and ask whether it'll be cool to sale some of their guns to civilian folk. The BKA okayed the sale. In case you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "beyond the scope of certain statutory prohibitions", it means it's cool - it's not forbidden by the law we're talking about. Now, bear with me. The guys at BKA said: if you ever produce such and such gun, you can sell it to civvies. Oh, and BTW, your guns with a barrel length of less than 42 cm can't go to sport shooters in Germany, because these guns look similar to evil weapons of war, but you probably already know this. It doesn't mean you can't sell it to Waffensammler or Jäger in Germany, or to any other civilians around the world, it's just these guns with short barrels are no good for punching paper according to German Law. And that's basically what the document says, what I said, and what you said.



    Quote Originally Posted by baljar View Post
    Whatever you are trying to construct there "noncompliance" is absolute nonsense, since you only keep proving that you do not understand the German legal logic of arms procurement. Because this is exactly the part where barrel lenghts and noncompliance comes into play. It points out that for German sport shooters, $6AWaffV criteria is not met, which means procurement as sports gun is not possible for GERMAN civillians. Under other civilian procurement, its no problem to procure those guns and yes, even go take them to the range and shoot them.
    For the love of all things holy, where did I claim that it will not be possible for German civilians to purchase these guns? That is of course, if we'll ever see them manufactured. I merely stated that semiautomatic firearms which have a barrel shorter than 42 cm, and bear resemblance to fully automatic weapons of war, are excluded from sports shooting within the meaning of German General Weapons Regulation, hence are not compliant with sports shooting. If ever produced, these guns will be available for sale to Waffensammler or Jäger in Germany, or to any other eligible persons abroad. Then, it doesn't mean HK will ever produce the G28 civilian variant. The discussed decision certifies that they legally can. And technically speaking, it won't be a G28 variant unless it will have a steel upper receiver anyway.



    Quote Originally Posted by mr223a1 View Post
    Paragraph 6, section 1, point 2, letter "a" of the General Weapons Regulation ("Allgemeine Waffenverordnung") literally excludes from sports shooting ("vom sportlichen Schießen sind ausgeschlossen") semiautomatic firearms which, in their exterior form, bear resemblance to fully automatic weapons of war within the meaning of the Law Concerning Arms Control ("halbautomatische Schusswaffen, die ihrer äußeren Form nach den Anschein einer vollautomatischen Kriegswaffe hervorrufen, die Kriegswaffe im Sinne des Gesetzes über die Kontrolle von Kriegswaffen ist,"), if the barrel of such weapon has less than 42 centimeters in length ("wenn die Lauflänge weniger als 42 Zentimeter beträgt"). The underlying purpose of this norm is to exclude such weapons from shooting sports; hence such weapons are are not compatible with the permitted purpose of this permit, which was the reasoning beyond "noncompliant" term.
    There is nothing in the above quoted sentence that indicates otherwise. Not compliant with sports shooting in Germany. Cool for everything else.



    Quote Originally Posted by baljar View Post
    Google does not tell you this of course.
    Google won't teach you logic or make you understand English in general and English legal terminology in particular, either.

  2. #22
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    Who cares..

    You guys should start another website called www.HKegos.com so you can argue there!
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    I'm not usually one to complain about thread bumps, but coming in to say "you guys should stop arguing" to an argument that ended 10 days ago....

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montrala View Post
    Call it "first night privilege".
    Made me laugh out loud!
    Happiness is a warm gun.

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    I was interested in the discussion of facts, not the argument of legalease. So, for the unwashed, a few questions:

    1) What are the differences between the M762A1 and the US Army adopted version (G28, or G28E, etc.);
    2) Does anyone have a parts list and source for conversion from the US civilian available model and the US Army or Bundeswehr verson;
    3) Do we think that HK will make the German or American Army version available commercially in the US anytime soon?

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by longshot2000 View Post
    I was interested in the discussion of facts, not the argument of legalease. So, for the unwashed, a few questions:

    1) What are the differences between the M762A1 and the US Army adopted version (G28, or G28E, etc.);
    2) Does anyone have a parts list and source for conversion from the US civilian available model and the US Army or Bundeswehr verson;
    3) Do we think that HK will make the German or American Army version available commercially in the US anytime soon?
    You struck out on all three questions - sorry.

    All because the final configuration of the US Army M110A1 CSASS is still to be determined based on requested changes by the US Army post-contract award to H&K. They have requested design changes to the trigger system, hand guard, barrel twist, scope mount, etc. All of these changes are to improve the weapon to current industry standards (not to address any deficiencies mind you) will be tested in 2017, first with a long twist rifling (1:10 or 1:12 inch) and later in 1:7 or 1:8 inch twist. Only after all this will the design be "frozen" and production guns made and delivered, probably well into CY2018. Only then with the delivery of first production guns would a complete "final" parts list become available for the final CSASS rifle.

    And then there may be one in .260 Remington but that is another matter altogether.

    G3Kurz

  8. #27
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    1) unclear due to no final specs
    2) there is no civiian US model yet, HK has clearance to sell the rifle from the BKA, aka the german "ATF/FBI"
    3) HK has made a non steel upper civilian version available in "ROTW" that they can not import to US due to 922r compliance. This rifle is labeled MR308A3-28 and retails for around EUR 3.200 including VAT. Also some dealers have made actual G28 available, for EUR 13.000 including optics -> IEA - HK G28

  9. #28
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    Had my time shooting the two different G28 that came in.

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