Looks like they are still making regular old MR556A1s in the new Georgia factory. - Page 10
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Thread: Looks like they are still making regular old MR556A1s in the new Georgia factory.

  1. #91
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    Yea, I guess it's too easy to sit back and throw stones and complain without ever offering up any useful information yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sweersa View Post
    That’s awesome! So what (if any) “host” do you have your RDIAS in right now? For a fun “blaster” and relatively on the cheap you can get a regular MR556, have the barrel cut down to 10.3” spec and remark the lower. Then you could shoot away and not worry about abusing a rare and nearly unobtainable real 416.

    I can’t top a real 416, but I do have a few nice kits I’m saving for when/if 922o is repealed that would make very nice registed MGs if built.
    One is too rare and nice to dumb down to a semi auto reweld, I’d just as soon keep it as a cool kit, so in the safe it waits, perhaps for eternity.

    As far as semi auto 416 vs MR556 receiver, the only difference I can imagine is the inside of the MR556 “shelf” may need altering to fit the DIAS, but I’m not certain of that.
    Nope, no altering needed!!

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    There actually is a slight difference between the MR and 416 receivers, though I wholly recognize it isn’t what you were getting at @sweersa . The 416 interior surface has a "wave" pattern to the milling. It is a cosmetic difference and nothing more. I mention it because it is a curiosity- perhaps trivia. But, it is knowledge that could help someone not end up with a remarked/clone.

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    All very interesting info. Thank you gents!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nzfly View Post
    There actually is a slight difference between the MR and 416 receivers, though I wholly recognize it isn’t what you were getting at @sweersa . The 416 interior surface has a "wave" pattern to the milling. It is a cosmetic difference and nothing more. I mention it because it is a curiosity- perhaps trivia. But, it is knowledge that could help someone not end up with a remarked/clone.
    This is not an actual design difference.

    This is usually caused by the bore bit getting to the end of its usable life and beginning to push material out of the way as much as it cuts and removes material. The waves you see still fall within tolerance of specifications, but the bit gets replaced very shortly after making these patterns and the next one off the production line with the new bit will have a nice bore and no waves.

    You can find these sorts of patterns on any machined surface where the bit has worn too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InshallahTech View Post
    This is not an actual design difference.

    This is usually caused by the bore bit getting to the end of its usable life and beginning to push material out of the way as much as it cuts and removes material. The waves you see still fall within tolerance of specifications, but the bit gets replaced very shortly after making these patterns and the next one off the production line with the new bit will have a nice bore and no waves.

    You can find these sorts of patterns on any machined surface where the bit has worn too much.
    What your speaking to is "Cotes de Geneve" or the waves of Geneve in relation to the wave pattern on a Swiss timepiece. In the gun business its called jeweling ( I believe). In watchmaking it can serve a purpose as to retain oil and lubricants but in a firearm its more aesthetics and skill on the part of the machinist.

    I am not at all surprised to see the fine craftsmanship on my MR556 and I would venture to guess the Germans do even better (marginal but better, how can you beat perfection but in nano-increments)
    From this thread on this topic
    https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk416-hk4...416-lower.html

    I don’t know enough to say one way or the other but if what you are saying is correct, then one must cast HK in the light of knowingly sending subpar assemblies our the door - a lot of them. At the price they charge, one might believe they could change their bits mor often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nzfly View Post
    From this thread on this topic
    https://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk416-hk4...416-lower.html

    I don’t know enough to say one way or the other but if what you are saying is correct, then one must cast HK in the light of knowingly sending subpar assemblies our the door - a lot of them. At the price they charge, one might believe they could change their bits mor often.
    The "Cotes de Geneve" (more commonly called "jeweling") is a very specific finishing step that adds time and cost to a piece that is done mostly for decorative purposes. Remember, we're talking about weapons here, not swiss watches.

    It is also such a fine surface process means that anodizing would completely cover it, thereby making it non-visible and a complete waste of time.

    I've seen a lot of aluminum parts hit the market with this "pattern" (i.e. machine marks) from a wide variety of manufacturers and once again, coming from a reputable manufacturer means it's still within the design tolerances set by the specifications and a non-issue. It does not mean that HK is putting out sub-par parts.

    When bit wear DOES become an issue is like when Aero precision constantly lets their magwell broaches wear down so post anodizing even USGI aluminum mags have a very difficult time fitting, much less dropping free. They say they fix it, yet it happens again every couple years or so. :-/

    Plenty of USGI contract parts we used on guns in the middle east had similar machine markings and as long as it doesn't effect form, fit, or function, no big deal.

    Personally, I don't understand how anybody could delude themselves into thinking that they would find a "Cotes de Geneve" type finish on a factory AR series rifle regardless of manufacture unless it was for a special collectors edition with a very low release quantity.

    Some bolt gun manufacturers have been known to perform something similar on the bolts of some higher end rifles, and of course hobbyists have been doing this to anything they can get their hands on from AR15 BCG's to needle nose pliars (you can find many examples of this with a quick search using "Jeweled rifle bolt").

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    One thing that I have seen a major difference in is the finishing of the MR556 compared to the 416

    Remember here, the 416 is a TOOL, as long as it is NOT going to cause malfunctions, it is not as finely finished as the MR GOING TO CIVILIANS. Forging avoids, Tooling marks, all that are common on the 416 or were during the height of the wars!! I have a bunch of pictures somewhere. @Nzfly has seen the Forging voids I am speaking of..

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    Quote Originally Posted by InshallahTech View Post
    The "Cotes de Geneve" (more commonly called "jeweling") is a very specific finishing step that adds time and cost to a piece that is done mostly for decorative purposes. Remember, we're talking about weapons here, not swiss watches.

    It is also such a fine surface process means that anodizing would completely cover it, thereby making it non-visible and a complete waste of time.

    I've seen a lot of aluminum parts hit the market with this "pattern" (i.e. machine marks) from a wide variety of manufacturers and once again, coming from a reputable manufacturer means it's still within the design tolerances set by the specifications and a non-issue. It does not mean that HK is putting out sub-par parts.

    When bit wear DOES become an issue is like when Aero precision constantly lets their magwell broaches wear down so post anodizing even USGI aluminum mags have a very difficult time fitting, much less dropping free. They say they fix it, yet it happens again every couple years or so. :-/

    Plenty of USGI contract parts we used on guns in the middle east had similar machine markings and as long as it doesn't effect form, fit, or function, no big deal.

    Personally, I don't understand how anybody could delude themselves into thinking that they would find a "Cotes de Geneve" type finish on a factory AR series rifle regardless of manufacture unless it was for a special collectors edition with a very low release quantity.

    Some bolt gun manufacturers have been known to perform something similar on the bolts of some higher end rifles, and of course hobbyists have been doing this to anything they can get their hands on from AR15 BCG's to needle nose pliars (you can find many examples of this with a quick search using "Jeweled rifle bolt").
    As @Nzfly said......and as you stated....probably because there are only about less than 50 of these HK416's in civilian hands. I'd say that's collectable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by InshallahTech View Post
    The "Cotes de Geneve" (more commonly called "jeweling") is a very specific finishing step that adds time and cost to a piece that is done mostly for decorative purposes. Remember, we're talking about weapons here, not swiss watches.

    It is also such a fine surface process means that anodizing would completely cover it, thereby making it non-visible and a complete waste of time.

    I've seen a lot of aluminum parts hit the market with this "pattern" (i.e. machine marks) from a wide variety of manufacturers and once again, coming from a reputable manufacturer means it's still within the design tolerances set by the specifications and a non-issue. It does not mean that HK is putting out sub-par parts.

    When bit wear DOES become an issue is like when Aero precision constantly lets their magwell broaches wear down so post anodizing even USGI aluminum mags have a very difficult time fitting, much less dropping free. They say they fix it, yet it happens again every couple years or so. :-/

    Plenty of USGI contract parts we used on guns in the middle east had similar machine markings and as long as it doesn't effect form, fit, or function, no big deal.

    Personally, I don't understand how anybody could delude themselves into thinking that they would find a "Cotes de Geneve" type finish on a factory AR series rifle regardless of manufacture unless it was for a special collectors edition with a very low release quantity.

    Some bolt gun manufacturers have been known to perform something similar on the bolts of some higher end rifles, and of course hobbyists have been doing this to anything they can get their hands on from AR15 BCG's to needle nose pliars (you can find many examples of this with a quick search using "Jeweled rifle bolt").
    Oh I understand what you have provided, but it doesn’t appear to align with what is logically consistent. If they are tool marks caused by worn bits, then why do so many, if not all, units share this attribute? Contrast that with the fact the "same" part (Daniel Defense finished) lack this attribute. It stands more reasonable those machining marks are not as you suggest as worn bits, but rather intentional and reflective of different manufacturing process.

    It is pretty damn inflammatory to suggest I am deluding myself. When I do an image search for "cotes de Geneve" many of the images match the pattern I find in my rifle’s receiver. To ward off more semantic crap, I say many, as clearly the term is being applied to fish-scaling, and that isn’t what we are talking about.

    So, I can choose to believe HK is sending out parts they made in-spec, but with worn tools, ignoring that probably every unit appears to have them. Or, I can choose to believe you, someone who constantly argues about how right they are even in the face of other informed perspectives.

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