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Thread: M27 IAR to M38 DMR???

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer27 View Post
    A Designated Marksman is just that. He is not a sniper. He needs to have ammunition compatibility with the platoon or squad, he needs magazine compatibility, he needs to not slow them down because he's carrying a significantly heavier weapon. He needs to be able to engage more accurately within the same range as the squad/platoon and a little bit further.

    A 7.62NATO rifle is not an answer to any of this.
    The 224 Valkyrie could be an interesting round!!??

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNAP94 View Post
    I can tell you that the Guns and Suppressors I know that are still in the running, I can’t disclose who I was recently told when I mentioned the Suppressor, but they are shooting .260 Remington. Brad/Boone we cannot disclose the name of the company or even the name of Suppressor that we have discussed recently.. @Nzfly It was not disclosed to me that it was not for public disclosure and considered OPSEC.

    Can that change, of course, at this time the Guns were all 260 FWIW..
    Quote Originally Posted by Lawdog734 View Post
    I can also tell you being familiar with the program offices for USASOC, USASFC and big Army that 6.5CM, 6.5x47 Lapua and .260Rem are all being tested. Given the new projectile and keeping it at mag length, the .260 would do the worst of the 3 as it would need to be seated the deepest in the cartridge.
    This is why you gotta love the internet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawdog734 View Post
    It's most likely going to be 6.5CM since it allows for better options with mag length ammo as it pertains to the new 6.5cal projectile based on M855A1 projectile technology. USASOC is leading the push into the 6.5 world but the Army is paying very close attention to what they do. There is already chatter about how the first time the CSASS rifle gets fielded it will likely be in 6.5CM.

    Hammer27 made a good point regarding the DM role. He still has to work within the operational envelope of the rifle squad. He's not a sniper, but is there to provide more accurate fire for the squad/team. For all the talk of 1000yd capability with 7.62 (rather dubious with a marginally trained soldier and a 16" rifle anyway), that's not his operational envelope.
    Yes....Hammer does make a good point, but what is being missed is that gap. Ok...leave out the 1000 yds, but even at 300, 500, hell 700 yds....5.56 is just ineffective, which is why I said....7.62. Sniper..... .300 Win Now, with the 6.5CM.....whole different ball game. @JNAP94 ......got it. And I'll leave everything else for whatever debate occurs after testing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad4065 View Post
    but even at 300, 500, hell 700 yds....5.56 is just ineffective,
    Exactly how many people have you shot at those ranges?

    Me personally, none. The guys I used to work for. Plenty. Mk262 and Mk318 did just fine and plenty of regular line guys popped bad guys with good old fashioned m855 up to 5/600 meters and made kill shots. The intermediate range hits (>300 <800 are considered "meh" in a lot of circles in Afghan because it happens often enough.

    The Mk12 program came into being for a reason and the shift in the USMC to using the M27 in this role simply validates the utility of the program and its effectiveness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InshallahTech View Post
    Exactly how many people have you shot at those ranges?

    Me personally, none. The guys I used to work for. Plenty. Mk262 and Mk318 did just fine and plenty of regular line guys popped bad guys with good old fashioned m855 up to 5/600 meters and made kill shots. The intermediate range hits (>300 <800 are considered "meh" in a lot of circles in Afghan because it happens often enough.

    The Mk12 program came into being for a reason and the shift in the USMC to using the M27 in this role simply validates the utility of the program and its effectiveness.
    I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
    But just for the sake of debating with you, and your almighty skill set, I'll let you in on this one. It's declassified, and if you need pics, I've got em. Hell...the body's are still frozen.

    Coyotes since Jan 1:

    1 at 205 yds......yesterday
    1 at 305 yds......Jan 1
    1 at 408 yds......Jan 2

    And yes....you guessed it. 7.62

    Don't get me wrong....I love me some HK416.....but Coyotes are more illusive and harder to find than a 12 point buck. Since you might not understand.....you can't get within 200 yds of a Coyote, because their ability to pick your scent is like 10,000 times more than a human's. Thus the reason I switch to 7.62 over 5.56.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JNAP94 View Post
    The 224 Valkyrie could be an interesting round!!??
    As much as the 224 Valk has my interest, I keep getting a really bad feeling it's going to be a bit of a dog in the types of barrels we would want to use it in.

    I think it will be obvious in a few days what the industry thinks of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad4065 View Post
    Since you might not understand.....you can't get within 200 yds of a Coyote, because their ability to pick your scent is like 10,000 times more than a human's.
    So when I popped my first yote from less than 50 yards with an iron-sighted HK 93...I was doing pretty good, eh?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dms16 View Post
    So when I popped my first yote from less than 50 yards with an iron-sighted HK 93...I was doing pretty good, eh?
    Dude/Sir/Royalty

    If you were within 50 yds of a Coyote.......I would love to meet you!!!!!! Congrats!!!!! Great Job!!!!! I'm envious.
    The absolute closest I've EVER gotten, is 110 yds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad4065 View Post
    I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
    But just for the sake of debating with you, and your almighty skill set, I'll let you in on this one. It's declassified, and if you need pics, I've got em. Hell...the body's are still frozen.

    Coyotes since Jan 1:

    1 at 205 yds......yesterday
    1 at 305 yds......Jan 1
    1 at 408 yds......Jan 2

    And yes....you guessed it. 7.62

    Don't get me wrong....I love me some HK416.....but Coyotes are more illusive and harder to find than a 12 point buck. Since you might not understand.....you can't get within 200 yds of a Coyote, because their ability to pick your scent is like 10,000 times more than a human's. Thus the reason I switch to 7.62 over 5.56.
    So shooting coyotes makes one an expert? Well then I guess i'm one too. Pinged plenty of them at 300 to 500 with 5.56/.223 with standard 55 grain when I lived in Nevada during my childhood years. Not exactly difficult to find, easy to bait, made most shots in sub 100 meters on large traveling packs. Hell, they used to stalk US sometimes on our way out to set up our shooting spot outside of Hawthorn NV. Fearless bastards.

    Me and my buddies used a few AR series rifles and a couple ran .223 bolt guns. One a 22-250, and one guy even trucked around a 30-06, but he was no more effective or ineffective than anybody else. One even managed to do ok with a mini-14 (scoped).

    Up in the parts where I live now we just wait for someone to complain about the 'yotes going after their chickens or pets, set up on a weekend evening and let them come to us. Make the vast majority of shots sub 75 to 50 meters (RDS's). Not sure why you're having such an issue taking your 'yotes or getting them close. You must be doing something wrong.

    That being said, I thought we were talking about real world military applications, not varmint hunting. Never the twain shall meet.

    My doubt grows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad4065 View Post
    Dude/Sir/Royalty

    If you were within 50 yds of a Coyote.......I would love to meet you!!!!!! Congrats!!!!! Great Job!!!!! I'm envious.
    The absolute closest I've EVER gotten, is 110 yds.
    No calls either on that one. Carhart coveralls, HK 93, and some bino's. That was in the 1990's. I knew where they were coming from and where they were going...which was down wind. It was just a waiting game.

    Capped one in the dome a few years back with a 22 Hornet at about 80-85y to see if I could. We use .338's and .300's now...far less subtle.

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