Is my spring(s) sprung?
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Thread: Is my spring(s) sprung?

  1. #1
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    Default Is my spring(s) sprung?

    I've been doing a lot of googling and searching here and just haven't been able to confirm some info to help troubleshoot some gas issues on my 10.4 416 (AH), non-vented. I've found bits and pieces of info that I'm looking for, but still hoping someone can check my work and see if there's anything I'm missing...

    - Running 416 upper with OEM buffer spring (red paint on end) and OEM buffer on a BRN-4 lower (HK buffer tube). It works 4.0 unsuppressed, but is over-gassed with SOCOM RC and SOCOM Mini shooting Federal M193 and M3 mags. Extractor will lose its grip on case, causing the case to bounce back into the chamber as the new round is loaded, locking everything up.

    - Buffer spring measures 11" on the dot. I haven't been able to definitively determine that a 416 carbine spring should match a M4 spring length, but if that's true, then it's right where it should be. Is the HK stripe spring longer? I seem to remember reading that.

    - Tried shooting suppressed with the above setup but put in Colt H3 buffer (new) and same issue.

    - For testing only, I tried a Springco Orange spring and it worked suppressed, but I can't remember if that was the correct length to not cause damage. I need to go pull it out to measure.

    Given the above, and with the intent to run this with just OEM parts, do I start messing with extractor spring or ejector spring? It's the only thing I can think of that's left.

    Anything else I'm missing without getting into new gas block territory?
    Last edited by gatordev; 03-21-2019 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Changed date code to AH...typo

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    The original, non-vented 10" weapons do not perform well with traditional baffle design suppressors, presenting the results you described. Two options are, upgrade the gas block or switch to a flow through design suppressor, like the short barrel model from OSS. I tried those options, one on each of two HK416s and had excellent results on each.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marine0303 View Post
    The original, non-vented 10" weapons do not perform well with traditional baffle design suppressors, presenting the results you described. Two options are, upgrade the gas block or switch to a flow through design suppressor, like the short barrel model from OSS. I tried those options, one on each of two HK416s and had excellent results on each.
    That's a bummer to hear, even if the majority of my shooting the upper is unsuppressed. I've read here that those that went to a vented gas block also opened up the gas port, but I also read here that someone who did that started having similar issues with SOCOM suppressors. Is the Goldilocks solution to have a vented gas block but not open up the port? Assume normal power ammo and not running Wolf poly-type stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    That's a bummer to hear, even if the majority of my shooting the upper is unsuppressed. I've read here that those that went to a vented gas block also opened up the gas port, but I also read here that someone who did that started having similar issues with SOCOM suppressors. Is the Goldilocks solution to have a vented gas block but not open up the port? Assume normal power ammo and not running Wolf poly-type stuff.
    I use a SOCOM SB2 on my 10.4" upper. I had the vented gas block installed and the barrel port opened. It spins like a top!
    "Just because you're paranoid doesn’t mean they're not after you!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by RegularGuy461969 View Post
    I use a SOCOM SB2 on my 10.4" upper. I had the vented gas block installed and the barrel port opened. It spins like a top!
    Thanks for the input. For some reason I didn't see someone responded. Out of curiosity, what ammo are you using? You were actually one of the people I saw saying they were going to try and not open up the port, so was curious of your results.

    As it turns out, I wasn't Googling the right search term earlier and I have since found another thread about gassing and fixes here on the forums. The basic answer that didn't require any gun-smithing was a Orange power spring and a XH buffer. I already had those parts on hand from a .308 project, so I tried that yesterday and everything worked fine, both suppressed and unsuppressed. There's a little more recoil impulse, especially unsuppressed, due to the mass, but it worked. I wouldn't be surprised if it short-stroked unsuppressed with weaker ammo, but when/if that happens, I can just throw the OEM parts back in the lower and problem solved for now.
    Last edited by gatordev; 04-19-2019 at 05:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RegularGuy461969 View Post
    I use a SOCOM SB2 on my 10.4" upper. I had the vented gas block installed and the barrel port opened. It spins like a top!
    Out of curiosity, what ammo are you using? You were actually one of the people I saw saying they were going to try and not open up the port, so was curious of your results..
    interesting, I’d like to see the post as I don’t recall ever saying I wasn’t willing to have my barrel ports opened. I immediately had my gas ports bored wider when I purchased the vented gas blocks. But oh well, no big deal... .

    As for ammo, I shoot RUAG Swiss P 63gr SBR FMJ, 63gr FMJ, 69gr Target and 69gr Styx. In addition; Federal M193, Federal and American Eagle M855, Black Hills 77gr, Nosler Defense and finally some old SSA 77gr (crap ammo, doesn’t fully burn). All work great suppressed and unsuppressed.

    The RUAG Swiss P 63gr SBR FMJ feels like butter out of my SBR. I’m told that it’s a slightly lower powered round than the regular Swiss P 63gr FMJ to accommodate the shorter barrel.
    Last edited by RegularGuy461969; 04-19-2019 at 09:17 PM.

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    Gotcha. I think I misread something you posted here, but after rereading it now, I see where I got confused, I think.

    Regardless, good to see it runs across a broad spectrum.

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    That seems like an eternity ago 😉 You were not mistaken in how your read that. But newer posts in other threads explain the evolution of my thinking. I posted that shortly after speaking with HK directly about it. Sorry to have created confusion about it.

    I continued to pursue the potential risk of chaffing but found people who had great success avoiding that risk, wizards as far as I’m concerned. So I went with it and never looked back.


    Quote Originally Posted by gatordev View Post
    Gotcha. I think I misread something you posted here, but after rereading it now, I see where I got confused, I think.

    Regardless, good to see it runs across a broad spectrum.
    Last edited by RegularGuy461969; 04-22-2019 at 03:37 PM.

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    I have a non vented block 416D that was feeling fast/overgassed even before adding a can
    I went with A5 buffer system, 10oz buffer from heavybuffers.com and wolf XP rifle buffer spring.
    Ejection is 3:00 with a can and closer to 4:30 without a can
    Cycles anything from wolf to 193 to 855 without any issues so far

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    For what it's worth, the USGI spring measurement requirements are ONLY applicable to USGI springs.

    Unless an aftermarket spring is made to the exact same specifications of numbers of coils, wire thickness, etc., the measurement will not apply and be correct.

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