Notes from the UMP Armorer Course - Page 2
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Thread: Notes from the UMP Armorer Course

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by soviet64 View Post
    Thank you for taking your time to write a great article and congrats with the #4000!

    Two related questions:
    1. "Their focus was to provide a .45 caliber option for the US military, a .40 S&W option for US law enforcement and a 9mm option for their European and global market."
    Why .40 and .45 for the US and 9mm for the rest of the world? Is the 9mm round only considered inadequate in the US?
    2. To my knowledge the UMPs are available with the NAVY(full auto) or FBI(semi) trigger group. I've used FBI(semi auto) on my conversion because it is semi auto only. But why would the government agency such as FBI purchase the submachine guns without the full auto capability?

    Thank you,

    Greg
    1. Look around. On your average American, there's about 12" of fat before you get to any vital organs (myself included). :)
    2. Because in their line of work, there was not a requirement for full auto. Similar situation, a friend of mine is a US Marshal, they have the UMP in .40 with 2-round burst but no more. So they are using the F/A capability, albeit limited.
    Last edited by jt15550; 11-24-2014 at 02:34 AM.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by soviet64 View Post
    Thank you for taking your time to write a great article and congrats with the #4000!

    Two related questions:
    1. "Their focus was to provide a .45 caliber option for the US military, a .40 S&W option for US law enforcement and a 9mm option for their European and global market."
    Why .40 and .45 for the US and 9mm for the rest of the world? Is the 9mm round only considered inadequate in the US?
    2. To my knowledge the UMPs are available with the NAVY(full auto) or FBI(semi) trigger group. I've used FBI(semi auto) on my conversion because it is semi auto only. But why would the government agency such as FBI purchase the submachine guns without the full auto capability?

    Thank you,

    Greg
    Thanks, Greg.
    To answer your first question, the plan to provide the UMP in .40 S&W and .45 caliber to the US market is because that is what the US customers were asking for.
    For your second question, the UMP is offered in four trigger variants: SF (single fire only), Navy, two round burst with single fire and two round burst with single fire and full auto. Some law enforcement agencies just simply do not trust their personnel with full automatic fire. Whether that stems from some sort of public image issue, possible legality concerns or a lack of training available for their personnel to control automatic fire, they chose either SF or two round burst with SF.
    SF,

    James

    Heckler and Koch Certified Armorer (Heckler and Koch)
    Heckler and Koch Pistol, Submachine Gun and Rifle Instructor (Singleton International)

    Owner, Teufelshund Tactical

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    James, thanks again for the explanation!
    jt - about the question 1, lol. My ex wife just got back from Rome. While she was touring the Coliseum, the guide told her that the real gladiators never looked all ripped like in the movies. They were in fact seriously overweight to make them less vulnerable to the cutting wounds. Also she observed many fat Italians in the wild(which goes against our stereotypes).

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  5. #14
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    Awesome write up
    Dushan
    "Not by strength by guile"

    T36KERA1 / STEYR AUG / IWI X95 / AR15 / HK VP9 / HK P2000 / Glock 43 / Walther "HK" MP5 A5

  6. #15
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    Thanks, enjoyed getting to know the history and workings of the ump design. It shows the level of quality and engineering that goes into a new weapon design. I like the multi-caliber support that was built into it. And putting all the safety features in, and still getting a reliable weapon was nicely done.

    Technically there is no difference between the factory ump upper receivers and bolts, right, so if an agency bought semi only FBI ump models, they would just need to swap out the lower if they wanted burst or auto capabilities.

    Shockwave

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockwave View Post
    Thanks, enjoyed getting to know the history and workings of the ump design. It shows the level of quality and engineering that goes into a new weapon design. I like the multi-caliber support that was built into it. And putting all the safety features in, and still getting a reliable weapon was nicely done.

    Technically there is no difference between the factory ump upper receivers and bolts, right, so if an agency bought semi only FBI ump models, they would just need to swap out the lower if they wanted burst or auto capabilities.

    Shockwave
    You are correct. The only difference between the UMP's ability to fire in semi-automatic only or burst or automatic is the trigger group you attach to it; completely modular.
    SF,

    James

    Heckler and Koch Certified Armorer (Heckler and Koch)
    Heckler and Koch Pistol, Submachine Gun and Rifle Instructor (Singleton International)

    Owner, Teufelshund Tactical

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  8. #17
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    Awesome. Really enjoyed the in-depth look at how the bolt was designed.

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    As a long-time fan of the UMP, I sincerely appreciate this behind-the-scenes look.

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    +1. Having recently picked up a SBR USC for the collection, this informative piece makes the stamp wait a little more bearable (and unbearable at the same time). Thanks!

  11. #20
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    Thanks for this great writeup James....

    For finally being able to fire my newly SBR'd UMP for the first time yesterday having the understanding of the makeup and performance of the machine makes it all the better.....

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