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Thread: Zenith full auto host conversion

  1. #21
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    That sucks

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    Whelp, I guess it's American made (or old school hyper-priced actual HK) for everyone now.

    That does simplify the choices a bit... and probably gives some of the new comers like PTR a leg up in their advertising, now that Zenith (and POF too) are knocked out of the sear host game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marine0303 View Post
    Settled the issue today with BATFE. No full auto conversions authorized for use with registered sear/pack on Zenith Firearms roller delayed blowback line of weapons. The offering of that service has been removed from the Zenith Firearms website.
    Thank you for the update and clarification, much appreciated.
    Marine0303 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beowulf View Post
    That does simplify the choices a bit... and probably gives some of the new comers like PTR a leg up in their advertising, now that Zenith (and POF too) are knocked out of the sear host game.
    Why? A modified F/A carrier still gets it done while the factory MKE carrier block remains intact.

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    TPM did my 33K. I did all the welding on my ATI gun, then sent it for the finish-chop, threading and refinish. It's my favorite host.
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  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marine0303 View Post
    Settled the issue today with BATFE. No full auto conversions authorized for use with registered sear/pack on Zenith Firearms roller delayed blowback line of weapons. The offering of that service has been removed from the Zenith Firearms website.
    Can we expect an official announcement from Zenith Firearms on the specifics so that people with Zenith host guns are aware that they are violating federal law when using a sear? It seems to be that this should be disseminated farther than just a post on a forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sotic View Post
    Can we expect an official announcement from Zenith Firearms on the specifics so that people with Zenith host guns are aware that they are violating federal law when using a sear? It seems to be that this should be disseminated farther than just a post on a forum.
    What is not expressly prohibited is permitted. The scope of Marine0303's post is that Zenith won't be doing future conversions. It DOES NOT say that past conversions are a problem, and if it is left alone with BATF I can't imagine it will become a problem. What the law prohibits is the creation of a new MG. Zenith's work did not do that, but there are procedural (not legal) reasons that BATF advises how conversions might be accomplished. Legal new approaches to conversion are allowed and should be encouraged by the shooting community. Nobody at Zenith acted in bad faith, nobody who sent a firearm to Zenith had bad intentions, BATF has just asked Zenith to stop providing a service for whatever internal procedural views they hold. It is very possible BATF's view is not proper and could be challenged by Zenith or somebody else, but this takes more $$$ than the service will ever make for Zenith or anyone else. It is disappointing to me to see lawful gun owner's choices for hosts further restricted but I recognize the history of HK conversions is going to make a front push pin and a shelf a difficult thing to have at the same time. (Although I think it should be permitted as long as you aren't creating a new MG, my view is a shelf trumps it all and as long as there is a shelf in place you can't get a MG without the kind of significant, clearly unlawful actions that go with creating any illegal MG.)
    Brad4065, rickj1nd and Jack_Bauer like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sotic View Post
    Can we expect an official announcement from Zenith Firearms on the specifics so that people with Zenith host guns are aware that they are violating federal law when using a sear?
    Who said that? The issue was Zenith performing a service. That's what Zenith was apparently not given approval for... (modification of the receiver). There are other ways to use a registered pack / sear on a Zenith roller-locked firearm without modification to the factory receiver.
    Last edited by rickj1nd; 05-20-2019 at 09:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GPSIG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sotic View Post
    Can we expect an official announcement from Zenith Firearms on the specifics so that people with Zenith host guns are aware that they are violating federal law when using a sear? It seems to be that this should be disseminated farther than just a post on a forum.
    What is not expressly prohibited is permitted. The scope of Marine0303's post is that Zenith won't be doing future conversions. It DOES NOT say that past conversions are a problem, and if it is left alone with BATF I can't imagine it will become a problem. What the law prohibits is the creation of a new MG. Zenith's work did not do that, but there are procedural (not legal) reasons that BATF advises how conversions might be accomplished. Legal new approaches to conversion are allowed and should be encouraged by the shooting community. Nobody at Zenith acted in bad faith, nobody who sent a firearm to Zenith had bad intentions, BATF has just asked Zenith to stop providing a service for whatever internal procedural views they hold. It is very possible BATF's view is not proper and could be challenged by Zenith or somebody else, but this takes more $$$ than the service will ever make for Zenith or anyone else. It is disappointing to me to see lawful gun owner's choices for hosts further restricted but I recognize the history of HK conversions is going to make a front push pin and a shelf a difficult thing to have at the same time. (Although I think it should be permitted as long as you aren't creating a new MG, my view is a shelf trumps it all and as long as there is a shelf in place you can't get a MG without the kind of significant, clearly unlawful actions that go with creating any illegal MG.)
    Quote Originally Posted by rickj1nd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sotic View Post
    Can we expect an official announcement from Zenith Firearms on the specifics so that people with Zenith host guns are aware that they are violating federal law when using a sear?
    Who said that? The issue was Zenith performing a service. That's what Zenith was apparently not given approval for... (modification of the receiver). There are other ways to use a registered pack / sear on a Zenith roller-locked firearm without modification to the factory receiver.


    From Marine0303 on an MP5 Facebook group.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Zenith full auto host conversion-65e400e0-dd89-4607-9ddc-6cad2fa222c8_1558548041759.jpeg  

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    There appears to be some non clarity here. It has been and per ATF instruction, done by many, to remove the rear receiver fence.
    The procedure they recommended was as follows:
    1.) An HK type wrap around shelf must be welded on to the front of the receiver completely covering the front PP hole.
    2.) Only after 1 has been done can the rear fence be removed.
    3.) A FA carrier can now be used and presumably a registered sear.

    So is an importer simply prohibited from performing this service or is ATF now saying that the procedure above is verboten under any circumstance even if done by a smith that is qualified to work on NFA items.???

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