HKPRO Forums banner

1 - 20 of 33 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just got back from my camp with my ptr 91. I tried to sight it in for deer season with 150 gr winchester silver ballistic tips, and to say the least I'm not impressed, I think my ptr doesn't like winchester too much. Now I know some of you guys shoot much further than 100 yrds with better than a 4-5" group. I'm going to stick with the 150 gr because its just so easy to find, but besides reloads (I don't reload), what store bought ammo do you all find groups the best so I have a direction to head to next time I try to fine tune it. Next step is to get me a box of remington and maybe steal a few of my dads hornady sst's and see how they group.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,289 Posts
Previ partisan surplus match 168 grain works well for budget ammo. Generally I only shoot Federal match 168 grain and l75 grain out of my precision rifles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
im looking more for hunting ammo. the type that can be bought at walmart or your typical sporting goods store. when i get surplus i get the cheapest possible cuz im just shooting at random crap and having fun. i never even thought of federal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
I don't have a 91-clone, but my 93-clone seems to love Federal and Hornady. It really seems to love the Hornady 53gr V-max. I ran some Hornady through my last AK (an AK74-clone) and it absolutely LOVED the 5.45 60gr V-max. I'd say try some of the Hornady and see how it does. I've always had very good luck with both Federal and Hornady ammo (in fact, those two brands are all that's in the ammo stash for my pistol and rifle).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I don't have a 91-clone, but my 93-clone seems to love Federal and Hornady. It really seems to love the Hornady 53gr V-max. I ran some Hornady through my last AK (an AK74-clone) and it absolutely LOVED the 5.45 60gr V-max. I'd say try some of the Hornady and see how it does. I've always had very good luck with both Federal and Hornady ammo (in fact, those two brands are all that's in the ammo stash for my pistol and rifle).
sounds like im going to have to rob a few from my dad. he shoots the hornady sst in his ar10. im not to happy with hornady mostly cuz it cost me a deer with the lever evolotion ammo. pulled the trigger on a doe with my crack barrel h&r and struck the primer but no fire. guess i will wave to give them another chance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
sounds like im going to have to rob a few from my dad. he shoots the hornady sst in his ar10. im not to happy with hornady mostly cuz it cost me a deer with the lever evolotion ammo. pulled the trigger on a doe with my crack barrel h&r and struck the primer but no fire. guess i will wave to give them another chance.
Dud primer...that sucks, man. The only time I've had that happen is with some old Pakistani .303 surplus, and like one round of Wolf 5.45. Never had a bad primer with either Federal or Hornady.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Dud primer...that sucks, man. The only time I've had that happen is with some old Pakistani .303 surplus, and like one round of Wolf 5.45. Never had a bad primer with either Federal or Hornady.
they had a bunch of bad 45-70s and i happend to get a bad box about 1-2 years after they swapped all the stuff out. after it happened i emailed them twice with 0 response from them. its like the could give a crap about their customers. made me angry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
My KPF shoots whatever i have put through it. For precision I also use Federal Gold Medal Match 168 or 175. Can easily pull sub moa groups if I do my part. For hunting I have used hornady sst 155- 165 grain or Federal with the nosler ballistic tips 150 grain. both with good results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
My KPF shoots whatever i have put through it. For precision I also use Federal Gold Medal Match 168 or 175. Can easily pull sub moa groups if I do my part. For hunting I have used hornady sst 155- 165 grain or Federal with the nosler ballistic tips 150 grain. both with good results.
my ptr eats through every 308 brand/type i put in the mag. seems like these guns are fond of hornady and federal. looks like im going that direction. i just wish more guns were like my ruger, that baby is amazing. give me a 150 gr 3006 regardless of brand brand and i can group inside a beer can or better.

side note im new to a lot of the firearm terminology, how tight/ what is a sub moa group?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
279 Posts
My HK91 didn't like the Winchester 150gr. talons," when they were available" or ballistic tips either. Grouped terrible. All other soft points and surplus grouped great. When compared to other rounds the oal was shorter. Thought that might have been the problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,844 Posts
....

side note im new to a lot of the firearm terminology, how tight/ what is a sub moa group?
Short answer:
MOA = Minute of Angle
For 100 yards "one MOA" equals to nominally 1 inch (1.047 inches to be more exact but not perfect)
For 200 yards "one MOA" equals a nominal 2 inches
For 500 yards "one MOA" equals a nominal 5 inches
For 1000 yards "one MOA" equals a nominal 10 inches (10.47 inches to be more exact)

Thus a "sub MOA" rifle shoots a group of under an inch on average.

Note:
The group sizes are measure center to center of bullet hole (muzzle loaders tend to do outside edge to far out side edge, but not many HK muzzle loaders ;-).
The group size quoted should not be the best group fired but an average (with standard deviation and/or limits) of many groups.
Also need the number of rounds in the group size and best to have an indication of the standard deviation and number of groups averaged (i.e. population)

-----------------

Long Answer:
MOA = Minute of Angle
Minute = 1/60th of a degree
360 degrees = full circle
360 degrees times 60 minutes per degree = 21,600 minutes in a full circle
full circle circumference = Pi X Diameter
Pi = 3.141592 (which goes on for ever)
Diameter = Twice the radius
Assume a radius of 100 yards (i.e. the distance the target).
100 yards time 36 inches per yard = 3600 inches for a radius or 7200 for a diameter
Thus there is 3.141592 x 3600 x 2 = 22619 inches around a circle of 100 yards in diameter.

And for a 100 yard radius one one minute subtends = 22619/21600 inches = 1.047 inches or nominally 1 inch at 100 yards
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Short answer:
MOA = Minute of Angle
For 100 yards "one MOA" equals to nominally 1 inch (1.047 inches to be more exact but not perfect)
For 200 yards "one MOA" equals a nominal 2 inches
For 500 yards "one MOA" equals a nominal 5 inches
For 1000 yards "one MOA" equals a nominal 10 inches (10.47 inches to be more exact)

Thus a "sub MOA" rifle shoots a group of under an inch on average.

Note:
The group sizes are measure center to center of bullet hole (muzzle loaders tend to do outside edge to far out side edge, but not many HK muzzle loaders ;-).
The group size quoted should not be the best group fired but an average (with standard deviation and/or limits) of many groups.
Also need the number of rounds in the group size and best to have an indication of the standard deviation and number of groups averaged (i.e. population)

-----------------

Long Answer:
MOA = Minute of Angle
Minute = 1/60th of a degree
360 degrees = full circle
360 degrees times 60 minutes per degree = 21,600 minutes in a full circle
full circle circumference = Pi X Diameter
Pi = 3.141592 (which goes on for ever)
Diameter = Twice the radius
Assume a radius of 100 yards (i.e. the distance the target).
100 yards time 36 inches per yard = 3600 inches for a radius or 7200 for a diameter
Thus there is 3.141592 x 3600 x 2 = 22619 inches around a circle of 100 yards in diameter.

And for a 100 yard radius one one minute subtends = 22619/21600 inches = 1.047 inches or nominally 1 inch at 100 yards
Thanks buddy learn something new everyday. I'm going to try me some hornadys. My goal is to put at least 3 rounds inside a half dollar at 100 yards, and the way you guys talk about these rifles is an easy feet as long as I can do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,633 Posts
In my experience with a real 91 and a PTR 91 I find the 150 grain bullets are the most accurate @ about 2 MOA with irons or an Eotech. Now your rifle may not like the Silvertip but I bet if yiou try some Remington or Hornady 150 grain BTSP it will do fine if you do your part. Excellent deer medicine

My handload is a 150 grain Hornady BTSP and it does the usual 2 MOA, same as surplus ball. Not exactly half dollar group but close. Don't know what a scope would produce but I hold pretty hard so maybe not much better
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,633 Posts
Dud primer...that sucks, man. The only time I've had that happen is with some old Pakistani .303 surplus, and like one round of Wolf 5.45. Never had a bad primer with either Federal or Hornady.
I've had a few FTF with the Chinese copper washed stuff since I had a PTR 91 trigger job.. some of those chi com primers are super hard
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
I shoot a Sako75 in 308 and the rate of twist is 1:11 which likes the heavier pills beyond 200yds. And since I normally buy ammo in bulk I've gotten in the habit of shooting Federal Match 175gr exclusively. The 165gr doesn't show any degradation in accuracy out to 200 -- but it does become evident further out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
818 Posts
Any quality AMERICAN made match ammo should be fine. Black Hills is always a good load, But I have also shot Hornady match 178gr ammo that was good enough to hit a steel target 4 of 4 shots @ 1,000 yards. Hunting ammo? I would get Hornady of some sort. They really make the most accurate ammo of anyone. Their bullets are superb.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,844 Posts
I played with scoped 308 semi auto rifles a half dozen plus years ago. HK91 #1 with a PSG trigger pack, X4 power scope and MSG90A1 stock would shoot 1.4" three shot groups off a rest at 100 yards, when I averaged the summers shooting of Federal American Eagle 150 gr FMJ. Federal Gold Metal Match 168gr or the older USGI M118 168gr did not do any better with limited shooting (saved it for the bolt gun). The AR10 was close (not a T model) and a couple M1As (not glass bedded, some heavy and some standard barrels) were on average a little worst. Since the AR10 had a rough chamber and I have never gotten a SA M1A to work for 200 rounds (over a half dozen) the HK91 stayed and the other's are gone. Have picked up a few more HK91s and FALs but always been too busy to get back and mount higher power optics etc. Now days the results of the MM21e is also of interest.

Following is a list of the diameter of US coins in inches and "MOA at 100 yards". Additionally listed to two places is the largest group size that a US coin will cover (inches or MOA), assuming that the hole in the paper is full caliber.

Coin Diameter in Inches
Penny 0.750
Nickel 0.835
Dime 0.705
Quarter 0.955
Half 1.205
Dollar 1.043

Coin Diameter in "MOA" at 100 yards
Penny 0.716
Nickel 0.798
Dime 0.673
Quarter 0.912
Half 1.151
Dollar 0.996

Maxim group size in Inches for 308 bullet which is covered by coin.
Penny 0.44
Nickel 0.53
Dime 0.40
Quarter 0.65
Half 0.90
Dollar 0.74

Maxim group size in MOA at 100 yards for 308 bullet which is covered by coin.
Penny 0.42
Nickel 0.50
Dime 0.38
Quarter 0.62
Half 0.86
Dollar 0.70
 
1 - 20 of 33 Posts
Top