Well I'm looking at a barreled uppers from vector and bmp.Either one I get will be built with all us made bolt carrier groups from hk parts.My main questions are one witch one will retain more value over the years, how does the furniture fit and what experiances have you guys had with their .40 cal barreld recivers.
.40 cal Barreled uppers vector vs. bmp.
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they're more or less both exactly the same thing. BMP or special weapons or cohaire or tactical arms or what ever company Todd Bailey has decided to sell his products from this week manufactured the .40 caliber receivers and parts kits for Vector Arms under a marking varience when vector was first in the HK clone buis.
ALOT of barreled .40 cal VECTOR receivers you see for sale online were made from a parts kits BMP/SW was selling a while back and is most likely built by a home builder who is looking to unload a bad project on someone else. some were sold by special weapons as barreled uppers. its kind of a crap shoot on exactly who built the gun. even the best builders have problems making those crap parts kits work right out of the box without replaceing or drasticly fixing most of the parts in them.
if your not looking for a complete gun right off that bat that was built by an experienced builder i would reccomend starting with a NEW SW receiver and sourcing all of the parts separately either German ones or parts from KNOWN good companys then have a reputable builder put it together. you'll be much happier with the results.
ALOT of barreled .40 cal VECTOR receivers you see for sale online were made from a parts kits BMP/SW was selling a while back and is most likely built by a home builder who is looking to unload a bad project on someone else. some were sold by special weapons as barreled uppers. its kind of a crap shoot on exactly who built the gun. even the best builders have problems making those crap parts kits work right out of the box without replaceing or drasticly fixing most of the parts in them.
if your not looking for a complete gun right off that bat that was built by an experienced builder i would reccomend starting with a NEW SW receiver and sourcing all of the parts separately either German ones or parts from KNOWN good companys then have a reputable builder put it together. you'll be much happier with the results.
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+1 with what "paul123" wrote. He has covered it quite well IMHO.
Scott
Scott
Stress relive the trunnion on any SW and/or Vector kit also add to the front portion due to inaccurate position of the barrel pin. Big write up in Weaponsguild concerning the trunnions. Written on facts not hear say.
Paul123 is one of the most knowledgeable on these builds so pay attention to what he says.
Paul123 is one of the most knowledgeable on these builds so pay attention to what he says.
Thing is I need a 40 a buddy of mine's father is a border patrol agent and he recently moved and I came into over 5000 rnds of the best kinda ammo you can get....free!So i just want a rifle in 40 that I can realy just keep forever.even if down the road I have to send it to Jeff for a new barrel its worth it.
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Paul, oh HK guru, can someone like Ghillie usually save a botched home job like that? Or are they often too far out of spec? On general principles I will only buy factory builds, just wondering about it for our edification
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Blitz, they are def. fixable and someone like jeff coulld get it squared away perfectly. some times though its just questionable if its worth the money. some people have bought completed guns for the 1500$ range and then had to send it to Jeff to have it fixed. figure around 500$ for the labor. now your at 2000$for the gun, for that price you could have bought a demilled german kit and a 40 cal flat or receiver and have ghillie build it for roughly the same cost and end up with a much superior gun.
the problem with these kits is that their just so damn inconsistant, i bought about 5 of them and all 5 needed new trunnions and bolt groups just to make them work. if you can get a barreld upper for 500$ or so, or a complete gun for under 1000$ its worth doing but by no means should any one spend north of 1k for one of these things UNLESS they know for a fact and it can be proven to them that Ghille bear, turner fab or IGF has fixed it and it runs 100%
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So now we know.. thanks!
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"Stress relive the trunnion on any SW and/or Vector kit also add to the front portion due to inaccurate position of the barrel pin. Big write up in Weaponsguild concerning the trunnions. Written on facts not hear say."
Paul123 - Are you recommending to avoid BMP/SW trunnions or is it the way they pin them. I have a BMP trunnion for a build, should I use an RCM instead?
Dave
Paul123 - Are you recommending to avoid BMP/SW trunnions or is it the way they pin them. I have a BMP trunnion for a build, should I use an RCM instead?
Dave
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Right now the only show in town for a .40 cal trunnion is either SW or factory German. i have not been on weapons guild to see what info they have provided on the trunnions but in my experience out of the 8 SW .40 cal trunnions i have used ALL of them ended up cracking across the barrel pin hole on the face of the trunnion. i have pinned quite a few trunnions in my build experience and those are the only ones that did it. its kind of a crappy feeling to walk over to the parts rack and see all of them cracked and then miss 2 in a gun that you just finished building only to have to tear it back apart.
here is a pic of what the cracks looked like.
im not saying they all do it, they may have been just the crappy ones SW put in the vector kits. i know that they ALL dont crack there are ALOT of people out there with Coharie guns and Vector guns that didint crack. but my expensive experience in using them has put a sour taste in my mouth. now if i build a .40 cal gun its either German core parts or i wont do it.
even worse on a .40 cal barrel is that once you set the barrel and drill the barrel pin hole thats it. the breech face is milled a little bit to allow clearance for the .40 cal extractor in the bolt face and unlike a 9mm barrel which you could press out clock 90 degrees and repress and redrill and pin. you cannot do that with a .40 cal barrel because once you clock it the 90 deg. the extractor relief in the breech face will no longer be in the right spot and it will not work. so if you end up with a bad trunnion you either have to scrap the barrel too or try using an oversized barrel pin but on a trunnion with an alredy known weak area drilling an even bigger barrel pin hole means even less support material so it would be even more prone to cracking!!!
Factory HK trunnions have the fronts of the trunnion where the barrel pin go's Annealed after the heat treating process this means softer metal not quite so brittle and prone to cracking. it also helps when you go to press the barrel in (all factory HK guns get their barrels pressed in from the front by the way) the trunnion will give ever so slightly and allow the barrel to start its path into the trunnion. the SW trunnions that came in the Vector kits may not have had this done, or the barrel pin hole was drilled in the wrong spot (IE: too low in the trunnion center line) which doesent provide enough material to handle the stress of a press fit barrel pin. if you've ever pinned a barrel you know the little buggers go in and come out extremely tight.
just my observations im sure other builders have had very different experiences.
It never ceases to amaze me how expensive my cheapness can be. (not saying that you are anything like me, of course)
from the perspective of someone who has dumped hundreds of dollars fixing a clone, save your money and get one built by Ghillie. There are alot of builders out there, but I would choose to support someone who loves his job and answers his phone. (can't speak on other builders, got lucky with the first choice)
from the perspective of someone who has dumped hundreds of dollars fixing a clone, save your money and get one built by Ghillie. There are alot of builders out there, but I would choose to support someone who loves his job and answers his phone. (can't speak on other builders, got lucky with the first choice)
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