[HKEsq]

So we know HK is going to try to sell 416/417 pattern rifles to civilians in Germany (which suggests they might just try to sell them in the largest civilian arms market in the world) - the question is, will there be any way to import the uppers once (if) they go on sale in Germany (or somewhere else), but before there is a US version available?

Here are the problems I see:
1) the upper receiver assembly accepts a staggered capacity magazine, which means that it is "non-sporting" under the current ATF interpretation of the 1968 GCA
2) this means that under current regs the barrel cannot be imported
3) so presumably you could bring in a 416/417 upper withouth a barrel and rebuild your rifle in compliance with the 10 parts rule
4) is there any barrel available in the US that could be used?

To get the entire assembled upper in you'd need one that would only take a single stack mag. In addition, just to be difficult, ATF might require additional modifications -- like a bolt head that won't strip rounds off a staggered mag (think SL8).

Are there any other options?

 

[AGG]

First, I guess there is http://www.floridagunworks.com/ATF_Open_Letter_7_13_05.html.

Second, I suppose there is the "non-sporting" issue.

But hey, there are those smart enough to, at a minimum, have the entire rifle imported.

Tony

 

[straightgrain]

Until the civvie 416/417's become available for sale in the US, you get the uppers the same way that it's been done for a bit. A Class 3 or LE obtains the entire gun, separates the lower from the upper, and sells the upper for a very high price.

This horse is pretty beat up.

 

[HKPRO]

Are there any other options?

HK IS going to try to introduce these guns or a reasonable variation U.S. for civilian sale. They will be partially manufactured/assembled here.Why not just wait for that? If they will sell uppers only too, remains to be decided.

 

[straightgrain]

Amen.

 

[AGG]

Wow, I hope they manufacture the barrels here, not threaded and no flash hider- I really miss the post-89 "pipe" gun days!

Tony

 

[HKEsq]

Let me clarify...

What I am trying to say is -- HK may start selling civie 416/417 rifles in Germany (or somewhere else), but it may never sell them in the US, or (more likely) the US debut may be delayed due to the need for building a US facility.

However, if and when HK starts selling civie rifles anywhere, presumably the 416/417 uppers will become much easier to obtain, e.g. as replacement parts in foreign countries. As I see it, there is no way you could get the barrel in, were that to occur. You could not go to Canada (which does not have the staggered magazine restriction and where German pattern civie rifles could presumably be sold) and buy a 416 upper from a civie Canadian rifle and then try to bring it back to the States with you.

What I am saying is, is there any way around that? Most notably, are there any barrels that could be used on a 416 upper with little modification?

Otherwise, yeah, it would be easiest just to wait until (and if) HK develops a US compliant rifle.

 

[Jake_The_Snake]

Civie 416/417

Yesss!! Soon to be gone are the days of $4000-$6000 HK 416 uppers. Hopefully, we'll be able to buy everything factory assembled here in America by hardworking locals working for a HK subsidary. Bring on the 10rd mags and heavy barrels...people have a way of tiptoeing around such issues (if those issues don't suit them). I for one can't wait for my civie 417/416. THANK YOU HK!!! Babysteps...

P.S. All you LE/Class III guys better move those uppers quickly!!!

 

[AGG]

If ALL is manufactured in the U.S. (all compliances met), ALL will be legal and ALL will be happy!!!

Tony

 

[jtkellertx]

...4) is there any barrel available in the US that could be used?

To get the entire assembled upper in you'd need one that would only take a single stack mag. In addition, just to be difficult, ATF might require additional modifications -- like a bolt head that won't strip rounds off a staggered mag (think SL8).

Are there any other options?

What's the point of having an HK without having the HK barrel? HK fans get really irrational sometimes. I don't think it's possible to have a AR15 (.223/5.56) bolt that won't strip off rounds from a staggered mag. Even if they did ship a bolt like that, it'd be really easy to modify an AR15 bolt to fit/work. As far as I'm concerned, yes you can import an upper receiver, no paperwork required as it's not considered a firearm/frame/receiver/barrel.

Edit: Unless HK redesigns the barrel extention on the AR or strays from AR milspec headspacing.

 

[straightgrain]

Ok folks... whip the horsie. HK has said that it WILL sell a civilian version of the 416/417 in the US and they have already lined up a US partner to assist in that endeavor.

And other opinions notwithstanding, I would advise extreme caution when relying on the cavalier claim that there is no issue importing firearm parts. There is. Specifically 27 CFR parts 47 and 178. And probably others. As usual, when in doubt, ask a qualified attorney. Club Fed is no place for an extended vacation...

 

[Reoze]

I've never heard of a bolt that couldn't strip rounds off a staggered magazine.

 

[boomfab]

1) the upper receiver assembly accepts a staggered capacity magazine, which means that it is "non-sporting" under the current ATF interpretation of the 1968 GCA

False. Staggered mags don't mean a thing as far as importability of a firearm. FN imports PS90s and FS2000s all day long. I imported an SL8-4 into the US and it takes staggered mags.


Non-sporting features include: threaded barrels, pistol grips, folding/collapsible stocks, grenade launcher mounts.

 

[boomfab]

2) this means that under current regs the barrel cannot be imported

The regs that ban machine gun barrel importation were instituted in 2005.

 

[boomfab]

3) so presumably you could bring in a 416/417 upper withouth a barrel and rebuild your rifle in compliance with the 10 parts rule

Not going to happen. HK won't sell an upper to you.

 

[boomfab]

4) is there any barrel available in the US that could be used?

No. There is not.

 

[boomfab]

Why is all this even being discussed? HK is going to be building guns in the USA in the near future. HK's decision does not change import restrictions.

 

[boomfab]

To get the entire assembled upper in you'd need one that would only take a single stack mag. In addition, just to be difficult, ATF might require additional modifications -- like a bolt head that won't strip rounds off a staggered mag (think SL8).

That's just completely false information.

 

[HKAZ]

Quote:
Yesss!! Soon to be gone are the days of $4000-$6000 HK 416 uppers.
P.S. All you LE/Class III guys better move those uppers quickly!!![/QUOTE]

They won't be gone. The supply of authentic HK416 will continue to be small. What you will be able to buy will be a MR223, which will be a AR15/HK416 variant, but it won't be a HK416. If Hk is saying maybe late 2008, that would put reality in 09 or 10. The MR308 to follow in 10, 11? Hate to bust your bubble but the game is still the same till something really happens which HK says will be after HK45s are manufactured here. I'm not holding my breath. Who knows, if Broom Hilda gets in they may change their mind again.

 

[F22_RaptoR]

Quote:
Yesss!! Soon to be gone are the days of $4000-$6000 HK 416 uppers.
P.S. All you LE/Class III guys better move those uppers quickly!!!

They won't be gone. The supply of authentic HK416 will continue to be small. What you will be able to buy will be a MR223, which will be a AR15/HK416 variant, but it won't be a HK416. If Hk is saying maybe late 2008, that would put reality in 09 or 10. The MR308 to follow in 10, 11? Hate to bust your bubble but the game is still the same till something really happens which HK says will be after HK45s are manufactured here. I'm not holding my breath. Who knows, if Broom Hilda gets in they may change their mind again.

The gun they are selling in GERMANY is the MR223. IIRC there is some sort of legislation in germany about selling "military style" rifles that reflect versions in use by the military.

So far there is NO legislation about banning names in the US, and the only thing that would be different on the US made 416/417, is the inside of the lower reciever, so it will not fit machinegun parts.



As far as i can assume (and has been stated here before) HK would most likely have hammer forged barrel BLANKS imported to the US, and cut to profile and chambered locally.