[sniper1]

How about a lightning link? Anyone get a close look at the carrier on these? From the pic on world of hk it looks as if it will work. I just saw a link on sturm for around 9k, that sure would be an inexpensive way to have a sweet f/a hk!!!

 

[jtkellertx]

Either a DIAS or a Lightning Link would do the trick, make sure they ARE REGISTERED. DIAS if you have a M16 style bolt carrier and lightning link if you have the AR style

 

[sniper1]

make sure they ARE REGISTERED.

For 9K it sure as hell better be registered.

 

[HKPRO]

One problem though, I think it's safe to bet that a civ 416/7 is not going to have a full auto bolt carrier installed.

 

[F22_RaptoR]

One problem though, I think it's safe to bet that a civ 416/7 is not going to have a full auto bolt carrier installed.

Hmm, i wouldn't bet totally on that.

Many manufactorors have FA carriers in their guns, i think it was more of an import issue for the 9X series to not have a FA carriers (even tho it was legal).

I would bet that the upper on the 416's and 417's will be the same they provide to LEO and military. The more ability to standardise = cost savings.



Of course, there IS a possibility HK could make S/A carriers, but it would seem pointless with all the people with RR's and RDIAS'. Course when we actually understand HK's intent to do something, i think we'll be in a better place

 

[rext]

Hmm, i wouldn't bet totally on that.

Many manufactorors have FA carriers in their guns, i think it was more of an import issue for the 9X series to not have a FA carriers (even tho it was legal).

I would bet that the upper on the 416's and 417's will be the same they provide to LEO and military. The more ability to standardise = cost savings.



Of course, there IS a possibility HK could make S/A carriers, but it would seem pointless with all the people with RR's and RDIAS'. Course when we actually understand HK's intent to do something, i think we'll be in a better place

ATF explicitly prohibits ANY M16 parts (trigger parts,carrier)in a semi AR15 style gun.The bolt carrier inparticular is named in the regulations.This is actually the only one they name I believe warning against this.Its not a problem in HK style guns.Supposedly they can fire F/A with any combination of these parts even in the absence of a sear,so they say.If you have a RDIAS or LL it would be OK to use the registered part with a full auto compliment of parts as long as the registered piece is in the gun.The M16 bolt carrier is a bit different than the piston driven carrier anyways,so one would have to be modified to work.The RDIAS has to have all F/A trigger parts to work also.

 

[F22_RaptoR]

ATF explicitly prohibits ANY M16 parts (trigger parts,carrier)in a semi AR15 style gun.The bolt carrier inparticular is named in the regulations.This is actually the only one they name I believe warning against this.Its not a problem in HK style guns.Supposedly they can fire F/A with any combination of these parts even in the absence of a sear,so they say.If you have a RDIAS or LL it would be OK to use the registered part with a full auto compliment of parts as long as the registered piece is in the gun.The M16 bolt carrier is a bit different than the piston driven carrier anyways,so one would have to be modified to work.The RDIAS has to have all F/A trigger parts to work also.

I thought there were a few companies selling them with FA bolt carriers, simply because they cannot fire full auto without the parts. Isn't the big deal with all of the "F/A" parts, the auto sear or RDIAS?

 

[Tspeis]

I know for a fact that LWRC ships ALL of their rifles out with full auto bolt carriers. Don't know why HK wouldn't be able to do the same. I really hope these new civvie models are essentially going to be the same as the 416's we see now, because if they're not, I'll be very disappointed.

 

[boomfab]

ATF explicitly prohibits ANY M16 parts (trigger parts,carrier)in a semi AR15 style gun.The bolt carrier inparticular is named in the regulations.This is actually the only one they name I believe warning against this.Its not a problem in HK style guns.Supposedly they can fire F/A with any combination of these parts even in the absence of a sear,so they say.If you have a RDIAS or LL it would be OK to use the registered part with a full auto compliment of parts as long as the registered piece is in the gun.The M16 bolt carrier is a bit different than the piston driven carrier anyways,so one would have to be modified to work.The RDIAS has to have all F/A trigger parts to work also.

The ATF doesn't prohibit that. They just don't recommend it. Many companies ship their AR's with FA carriers.

 

[diesel1959]

One problem though, I think it's safe to bet that a civ 416/7 is not going to have a full auto bolt carrier installed.

I was thinking the same thing. This is another reason why already having a 416 upper and all the parts that go with it will be of particular value when you purchase one of the new civvie semi-auto versions of the HK416.

 

[pgreen]

Ill bet Hk wont make that mistake. Hkpro knows.

 

[rext]

From the new NFA handbook,in appendix B,Rulings and ATF articles, 27 CFR 479.11:meaning of terms.ATF rul. 81-4 regarding Drop in sears,the second page of this states:

"In order to avoid violations of the NFA,M16, hammers, triggeres,disconnectors,selectors and bolt carriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have been modified to AR-15 Model SP-1 configuration.Any AR-15 type rifles which have been assembled with M16 internal components should have those parts removed and replaced with AR-15 Model SP1 type parts which are available commercially.The M16 components also may be modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration."


Is this incorrect or has it changed?I was always under the impression it could have no M16 parts period and thats what the paragraph seems to relay to me?I know you cant buy a new carrier (most places) unless you have a form 3 or 4 with a sear or M16 listed on it ,or a SOT.

 

[Hey_Its_Cole]

From the new NFA handbook,in appendix B,Rulings and ATF articles, 27 CFR 479.11:meaning of terms.ATF rul. 81-4 regarding Drop in sears,the second page of this states:

"In order to avoid violations of the NFA,M16, hammers, triggeres,disconnectors,selectors and bolt carriers must not be used in assembly of AR-15 type semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16 parts have been modified to AR-15 Model SP-1 configuration.Any AR-15 type rifles which have been assembled with M16 internal components should have those parts removed and replaced with AR-15 Model SP1 type parts which are available commercially.The M16 components also may be modified to AR-15 Model SP1 configuration."


Is this incorrect or has it changed?I was always under the impression it could have no M16 parts period and thats what the paragraph seems to relay to me?I know you cant buy a new carrier (most places) unless you have a form 3 or 4 with a sear or M16 listed on it ,or a SOT.

Most ar15 guys use m16 bolt carriers, in fact most seem to recommend it. As far as I know you can use m16 bolts in ar15s all day long.

 

[F22_RaptoR]

Most ar15 guys use m16 bolt carriers, in fact most seem to recommend it. As far as I know you can use m16 bolts in ar15s all day long.

Yes, the heavier bolt seems to work better, especially if you have a shorter rifle (and an opened ip gas port) it seems to help dampen the higher recoil. (along with several other modifications to make a DI system work with super short barrels)

 

[HKAZ]

In 2.1.6 of The NFA Handbook, the ATF specifies what it considers the lower of the "AR" series to be the "receiver". It also states that "machineguns are the only type where the receiver of the weapon by itself is an NFA firearm". That would support what Boomfab and others have said about the bolt not mattering-it's in the upper. It's the same as having a full auto bolt in a semi auto HK. No Problem. From what I've heard from many people, POF & LWRC uppers must come with full auto bolts & carriers because people (including an attorney I use)buy them and stick them right on a M16 and off they go. A buddy just got his LWRC last week, I'll check and see which bolt& carrier it has in it.

 

[Tspeis]

Here's the standard carrier included with the LWRC rifles. It's a full auto carrier.

And for comparison sake, the 416 bolt carrier, also a full auto one.

I personally like the 416 carrier due to it having the pusher rod stop machined right into the top. Also, the spring loaded firing pin and firing pin block as well as the drainage hole on the bottom of the carrier for over the beach function.

 

[a1class3]

OK now i'm confused too. Having worked in the NFA business for a while (sot) and no longer thank god. I read the same mess that REXT quoted from the "branch" and have been tought and preached the idea that all m16 parts are a no-no of semi AR's for years. If there is some way around this, where is it in the laws? All I have found is that they are specifically forbidden in the NFA stuff that I have found. Nonetheless the issue of F/A bolts in new semi AR's is compelling. Now I just want to know what is legal!!

 

[Tspeis]

One problem though, I think it's safe to bet that a civ 416/7 is not going to have a full auto bolt carrier installed.

Just out of curiousity, I thought the way HK, LWRC, and other companies solved the issue of carrier tilt was by incoporationg a bell shape into the rear of the carrier? Without the extra material on the bottom of the auto carriers, how would this be possible?

 

[AviatorDave]

OK now i'm confused too. Having worked in the NFA business for a while (sot) and no longer thank god. I read the same mess that REXT quoted from the "branch" and have been tought and preached the idea that all m16 parts are a no-no of semi AR's for years. If there is some way around this, where is it in the laws? All I have found is that they are specifically forbidden in the NFA stuff that I have found. Nonetheless the issue of F/A bolts in new semi AR's is compelling. Now I just want to know what is legal!!

a1class3 - sent you a pm.