[Guido02]

I'm posting this here because the gun will be an SBR.

I just purchased a PCS53K from a member here. I'd like to see how some of the members have them set up. Optics, stocks, flash hinders/other muzzle devices, hopefully a RAL8000? I've searched the net and this site. I've seen the pictures it has to offer, I'm hoping to see other options to guide my decision.

Thanks in advance.

 

[scottinthegrove]

How much money do you want to spend and what are you looking to do with a 53K SBR? I had Jeff build me a couple of 53Ks using SW53 AR receivers. Since I have a sear, he set the 53Ks up as pistols. I also had Jeff build an A2 stock using a green stock. I also had a surplus G3 A3 stock that I had Jeff modify for use with the 53Ks. The barrel of the 53K is thicker than a 9mm "K" barrel. So I bought a SW "K" grip back when there was Black Market Parts and opened up the center of the grip for the wider barrel. I bought that "K" grip specifically for my 53Ks. My guns and A3 stock are black. I'm sure that you can sear Jeff "Dragons" thread on his forum.

As I am sure, if you have one of Jeff's 53Ks, you are aware that the 53Ks that Jeff builds uses a custom collapsible recoil assembly that is welded to the end cap of the converted G3 end cap. It is my understanding that since the 5.56X45 in a 5.1" will have almost twice the speed of pistol caliber. So there will be almost twice the friction heat in the 5.56X45 "K" barrel than a 9mm "K" barrel. The plastic "K" grip does not have an aluminum heat shield that other rifle caliber hand guards have. I would highly recommend wearing gloves when you shoot it. With a standard factory flash hider I usually get a two foot diameter flash ball when I fire my guns. If I pull the flash hider off, it becomes closer to a three foot diameter fire ball at the muzzle. Even in bright daylight after the first round is fired off, If I look at the sights I can't really see much for a sight picture, just "flash".

To me, I think of a 53K as an expensive noise maker. I usually insert a mag, give it the HK slap, point it in a safe direction, close my eyes and pull the trigger. To which I usually receive a couple of hoots and hollers from the guys I'm shooting with. The gun stops, I open my eyes to cock back and check the chamber. With a black gun and a black interior of that gun, if I don't close my eyes I can't check the chamber very well. I have run drills, during the day with my 53s. I have never tried to run drills with my 53Ks. Maybe with a Vortex flash hider you might be able to get the flash under control enough to see the sights in the daylight. That seems like a tall order. But I have to admit I haven't tried to. I would highly recommend that you shoot your pistol a bunch to be sure that you can see your sights before spending money on a tax stamp, engraving. I sincerely wish you luck with 53K SBR project. Maybe someone that has done the SBR process with their 53K can speak to the flash issue.

Scott

 

[kwesi]

My Vector 53K is a crowd pleaser as Scott has indicated. I always remove the flash hider! Mine loves Federal XM193 NATO. I added a risk with a vertical grip (sear gun). Fun & easy to shoot.

 

[har1340]

Come on guys, let's see some pictures!!!

 

[scottinthegrove]

My point in posting isn't to post pictures unless it is to have an image to clarify a point. The 53K is cool. But it is a very "impractical" cool. To register and engrave a SBR is expensive. There are also others that might be interested in a 53K because of how compact it is. I had never shot one until I owned one. My point in posting is to disseminate information, not "look at the cool stuff I have".

There is also the question of the twist rate of the barrel. The new barrels are 1/7 twist. Some are made with 1/12 stubs. A 53K is not going to stabilize very well anyway. But 1/12 won't do so well at all. OP, I sincerely wish you luck with your 53K SBR project.

Scott

 

[Guido02]

Thank you for the info. I hadn't considered the flash being an issue, but now that you mentioned it my AKSU blinds me. So yeah I'm sure the 53k is going to be much worse. Has anyone had any real luck taming the fireball? I know that is counterintuitive to the point of the gun...

I would like to see how people have them set up, so please do post pictures.

 

[scottinthegrove]

Thank you for the info. I hadn't considered the flash being an issue, but now that you mentioned it my AKSU blinds me. So yeah I'm sure the 53k is going to be much worse. Has anyone had any real luck taming the fireball? I know that is counterintuitive to the point of the gun...

And there is the rub. To me the whole point of a 53K is "Shock & Awe". Like asking, I want to use supersonic ammo and no suppressor but I want my 9mm gun to run quieter. Other than buying a SD with a SD suppressor has anyone had any luck making their 9mm carbine run quieter without a can or subsonic ammo? That just doesn't make sense.

Your AKS74U has what a 8" barrel in 5.45X39. We are talking about a 53K barrel almost 1/2 that barrel length. It is my understanding that powder burn is not linear. So shortening the barrel by 1/2 won't make double the flash. It will be like four times the flash. As I posted above, with the factory A1 flash hider I get around a two foot diameter fireball. A Vortex hider would help, but I can't believe after the first round, you will see much of anything other than the fireball you saw at the end of the barrel

Certainly you could get the flash much more manageable with a rifle caliber can on the muzzle. Problem is most manufacturers do not recommend using their cans on barrels less than 10". So to me a can on a 5" barrel is asking for a bullet to come through the side of the can. I have an AAC M47-2000 can (7.62 version of the M4-2000 5.56 can) and I would never put it on either of my 53K ARs. I have put it on my 53 AR because it is 7.62 and it is 8.3" long.

If you want "lipstick on a cow" pictures, then I'll just leave it at that. But I don't think you are going to make a 53K into a practical tactical style carbine. You might as well ask if anyone has made a 53K into a Scoped Precision Rifle, and if you can have pictures of that. Good luck with your SBR project. Personally I think a 53K is about as practical as the 51K that "har1340" has as his avatar. They are fun for flash and noise with a sear, but have no practical use as a semi IMHO. (To other members) If you have a 53K as a SBR, please post your experience. I have not seen anyone in other 53K threads say they had one as a SBR unless they had registered all their short barreled hosts so they could leave the stock on it when they stored it. The 51K might be able to run a .22lr kit, but that would be one expensive .22.

Pre 1986 HK33 that is being turned into a hk53 when I can get the money for a folding stock .... Also have the slim handguards to put on there when I get to it ..Dont worry it is papered and legal etc etc .. Lets just say I have access to it to shoot it and use it

Just to be clear, the configuration pictured would be a 33K with like a 12.7" barrel (factory 33K length). A HK53 uses a 8.3"barrel with hand guard similar in size to a full size MP5 but is longer over the trunnion as the 5.56X45 rifle caliber trunnion is longer than a pistol caliber trunnion. The discussion is about a 53K clone, as HK never made a 53K. HK parts sells a 5.1" barrel for use in 53K builds. What is the twist rate of the Pre-'86 33K barrel? Did the original barrel get shortened or replaced with an actual HK33K barrel? HK 5.56X45 barrels with a 1/7 twist will tend to have a "178" on the chamber end of the barrel Early HK33s had a 1/12 twist like the early M16A1s. Good twist rate for 55 grain out of a full length barrel. Shorten the barrel and/or increase the mass of the projectile and stabilization is degraded. So 1/7 twist is recommended. YMMV.

Scott

 

[wrongrecroom]

And there is the rub. To me the whole point of a 53K is "Shock & Awe". Like asking, I want to use supersonic ammo and no suppressor but I want my 9mm gun to run quieter. Other than buying a SD with a SD suppressor has anyone had any luck making their 9mm carbine run quieter without a can or subsonic ammo? That just doesn't make sense.

Your AKS74U has what a 8" barrel in 5.45X39. We are talking about a 53K barrel almost 1/2 that barrel length. It is my understanding that powder burn is not linear. So shortening the barrel by 1/2 won't make double the flash. It will be like four times the flash. As I posted above, with the factory A1 flash hider I get around a two foot diameter fireball. A Vortex hider would help, but I can't believe after the first round, you will see much of anything other than the fireball you saw at the end of the barrel

Certainly you could get the flash much more manageable with a rifle caliber can on the muzzle. Problem is most manufacturers do not recommend using their cans on barrels less than 10". So to me a can on a 5" barrel is asking for a bullet to come through the side of the can. I have an AAC M47-2000 can (7.62 version of the M4-2000 5.56 can) and I would never put it on either of my 53K ARs. I have put it on my 53 AR because it is 7.62 and it is 8.3" long.

If you want "lipstick on a cow" pictures, then I'll just leave it at that. But I don't think you are going to make a 53K into a practical tactical style carbine. You might as well ask if anyone has made a 53K into a Scoped Precision Rifle, and if you can have pictures of that. Good luck with your SBR project. Personally I think a 53K is about as practical as the 51K that "har1340" has as his avatar. They are fun for flash and noise with a sear, but have no practical use as a semi IMHO. (To other members) If you have a 53K as a SBR, please post your experience. I have not seen anyone in other 53K threads say they had one as a SBR unless they had registered all their short barreled hosts so they could leave the stock on it when they stored it. The 51K might be able to run a .22lr kit, but that would be one expensive .22.





Just to be clear, the configuration pictured would be a 33K with like a 12.7" barrel (factory 33K length). A HK53 uses a 8.3"barrel with hand guard similar in size to a full size MP5 but is longer over the trunnion as the 5.56X45 rifle caliber trunnion is longer than a pistol caliber trunnion. The discussion is about a 53K clone, as HK never made a 53K. HK parts sells a 5.1" barrel for use in 53K builds. What is the twist rate of the Pre-'86 33K barrel? Did the original barrel get shortened or replaced with an actual HK33K barrel? HK 5.56X45 barrels with a 1/7 twist will tend to have a "178" on the chamber end of the barrel Early HK33s had a 1/12 twist like the early M16A1s. Good twist rate for 55 grain out of a full length barrel. Shorten the barrel and/or increase the mass of the projectile and stabilization is degraded. So 1/7 twist is recommended. YMMV.

Scott

My bad pulled post

Good info

 

[scottinthegrove]

Hey, as far as I'm concerned, we are all here to learn. This site has been a great resource for me. The "World of HK" is dated, but there is a lot of great information there. Search some subject you are interested in. That, to me, is one of the great things about this site, you can search old threads. The same thing might come up multiple times over the years. It is possible that a member has some great insights, but doesn't necessarily participate in a thread every time it comes up. So do some searching. There might be some "obscurity gold" hidden away somewhere about the 53K.

"wrongrecroom", you are lucky to get to use an actual HK registered receiver. I'm lucky to have a Fleming sear. But I have never shot a Pre Sample 33 or 33K. Most of the Post Samples I have shot are converted clones. It sounds like a great gun. Thank you for sharing.

Scott

 

[kwesi]

For those that want to understand the fireball we are discussing. My buddy on the V53K:

 

[scottinthegrove]

Thank you "kwesi". Your video does a great job explaining just how huge and intense the 53K fireball is. That is the problem with taking pictures and not organizing them. I know I have some somewhere but I can't find them. The pictures I have are outside in the middle of the day south of Las Vegas. There aren't many places in the country where the sun is brighter in the middle of the day than the SW desert. When I took the pictures I was further back so the whole fireball can be seen. And it is one thing to see pictures or video. Look at how the shooters hand is inside the fireball. The first time I dumped a mag, there was enough heat and flame that it burnt the hair off the knuckles of my left hand. I remember feeling that heat on my face, with just a little bit of fear. The 53K especially without a muzzle device is a very "primal" experience. When I first sent the parts away to Jeff to get my 53Ks built, I thought about the De Groat DeGroat Tactical Armaments, LLC. flash enhancer. But after shooting the 53Ks I was afraid the enhancer would make the fireball too big and burn the hair off my face.

I'm sure some kind of "blast chamber" could be added to the muzzle of the 53K to catch most of the fireball. The problem is it would be big and bulky. Like with the Colt moderators, there would be some element of "reduced report". So the custom "blast chamber" would need to have a serial # and be NFA registered. To me the factory 53 four prong flash hider does a decent job on the 53. I have not bothered to try one on my 53Ks. If I bring the 53K to the range, I'm feeling like "Shock & Awe". I think that the 53 cam be made "tame enough" to use as a tactical carbine. That is why many Agencies bought the HK53. With the A3 stock and the four prong flash hider the 53 is a very compact 5.56X45 carbine. I certainly would not want to fire one in a small enclosed hallway without double hearing protection. But if I shot my 53K in a small enclosed hallway, I'd not only be deaf from the sound, but blind from the flash and possibly on fire.

OP, it sounds like you have one on the way. Congratulations. Like using an adjustable wrench as a hammer or going off road with a late model Corvette, using the right tool for the job is always best. If you seek attention at the range, the 53K or his big brother the 51K will be very popular. If you want a compact 5.56X45 carbine for CQB type stuff, I don't know as the 53K will be such a good fit. But if you want a "Shock & Awe" firearm, only a 51K can trump a 53K.

Scott

 

[kwesi]

Scott: Call me crazy but I just love that fireball. I've never had any burns on my hands or even feeling uncomfortable when shooting it doing mag dumps full auto. Even with a beta mag! I love to see the smile on my clients faces! I only left the flash hider on a few times when I forgot to remove it. I've often wondered how a hot dog would cook in the fireball. I always try and warn those in the next bay..."fire in the hole".

 

[scottinthegrove]

They are a pile of fun. It just "is what it is". It isn't going to be a CQB carbine of a SPR. But it is a great way to waste some ammo. That first dump with my 53K was without a muzzle attachment. I didn't receive any burns, but it did burn the hair off my between my knuckles. I've never shot mine indoors. I can only imagine what that is like.

Scott

 

[kwesi]

I always wanted to dump a mag (wasting Ammo!) outdoors after dark.

 

[scottinthegrove]

I haven't done "after dark" but right at the end of the day. I got everything packed up. Dump one mag and go. Even with my eyes shut, it was like standing in front of an incredibly bright strobe light. For me it is a day time only toy. There might be others that love it at night. The strobe effect was not pleasant to me.

Scott

 

[kwesi]

I haven't done "after dark" but right at the end of the day. I got everything packed up. Dump one mag and go. Even with my eyes shut, it was like standing in front of an incredibly bright strobe light. For me it is a day time only toy. There might be others that love it at night. The strobe effect was not pleasant to me.

Scott

You got me wondering how long it would take my eyes to adjust (if fired after dark) or if I should wear my sunglasses!