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Discussion Starter #1
A buddy of mine is trying to choose between HK, Sig, and the XD line. He has shot his neighbors P226, he will be shooting my P2ksk, USPc and USP (all LEMs), and he has shot an XD in .40 (not sure which model).

His requirements are that the gun be easily concealed, have a very clean crisp trigger, and be reliable. He is looking to spend between $800 - $900, so his price range is reasonable. That pretty much rules out HK because of the trigger, but I figured I would let him try my LEM just to see if he likes it. He is not sure whether he prefers SA or DA yet, but he does know he wants .40 or .45.

Anyway, I know nothing about the XD line, I have heard good and bad. I trust the input of people on this board because I know they understand what a quality firearm is. If he likes the feel of the XD, is there any reason he might want to second think the decision based on any known issues? I know SA customer service is great, but my only experience has been with their 1911's.
 

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I've rented an XD once it did have a couple jams but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt by saying that it was a rental gun and well, rental guns are cleaned about as often as my tires. Aside from that I enjoyed it, Would I buy one? probably not, I'd much rather have another HK.
 

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He needs to choose between subcompact and compact. I'm sure you know what Sigs are good at.

I would goto a shop and do head-to-head comparisons with the 239 and XDsc, holstered and all. At least buy a holster from them for the trouble. A .40 P2000SK with touched-up trigger (Does Bruce Gray do this?) and x-grip when permissible is an option. He may also consider the M & P subcompact, I don't hear about a lot of people hating them.
 

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My wife has an XD 9mm. Have not had a lick of trouble with it.
It is accurate and internals are beefy.

Now, that being said, I have a P2K SK in 9mm V3 with NS, and iMHO, that is the ultimate carry gun. Extremely easy to conceal, and the trigger is very good.
 

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I own 6 Sigs and 5 HK's ~ I could carry the P239 but carry the USPC45. It could be a tad smaller and I am considering an SK for that. Both Sig and HK are fine guns. I like to carry a gun I have confidence shooting ~ my reason for the HK.

XD on the other hand is not even in the same league IMO with HK or Sig ~ a big step down but it is cheaper. Not for me.
 

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I personally can't handle grip safetys, so the XD is out for me. If he is a 1911 guy he might actually like this feature though. If he turns out liking SA better then be careful he might rule out the HK's just because your having him shoot HKs with LEM. Make sure he knows they make SA/DA models of everything thats LEM as well. SIGs are really nice, but a little heavier than an HK esp. the P2000.

Lets see...
$800-$900 price range
.40 or .45 caliber
Reliable function with a clean crisp trigger

Sounds like he wants a USPc to me! :D
 
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I own a Sig 220 an XD9 and I'll own my first HK USP this weekend. The Sig is deadly accurate, comfortable in the hand, and just has a nice overall smooth feel when shooting. After putting thousands of rounds through my XD, I've come to the conclusion that its a no BS reliable shooter that's also very comfortable to shoot. I'm more accurate with my Sig, but the XD still shoots where you point it. I've never had a single failure in the Sig (except when trying to use POS ProMag magazines) or the XD. My only complaint with the Sig is the single stack magazine. My only complaint with the XD is the slide finish. That slide wore out quicker than any other firearm finish I've ever owned. Not a big concern of mine, just an FYI.
I let a buddy who is fairly new to handguns shoot both the Sig and the XD this weekend. He prefered the XD.
That said, I cant wait to get my USP. I shot a buddy's USP 45 and I damn near wet myself. I just love that gun.
 

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I have an XD in 45acp and its been 100% perfect. It has a nice trigger but you can very easily and cheap make a Glock trigger even better then all of them. Not sure why Glock is not included in the list. The XD is a good choice but I don't know why you said HK is out because of the trigger? There is nothing wrong with an HK trigger. Are any of the guns your looking at going to have as nice of a trigger as a tuned 1911? NO! I would not say you can only buy an HK with a LEM, he does not even know if he wants DA only or DA/SA. He is looking at 3 totally different formats. The XD is DA only but striker fired, the Sig is DA first shot and single action after (very hard to learn for the average shooter) this is assuming he isnt looking for a DA only Sig which is very hard to shoot just as a DA only Hk is. A big advantage lets say an HK USP 40 or 45 has over all of them is once he buys the gun he has 9 varients he can make the gun to fit his taste, he can convert it to LEM if he wants, also make it a light LEM or put a match trigger in it or a match/lem hybrid. There are no guns that give the user as many choices to make it just the way they want it then the USP.
 

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Oh and if he is looking mostly to carry it the 40 is a better choice for weight when loaded and the Glock 27 is the easiest to conceal of any sub compact made. I went to the local store and put the P2000sk, XD sub and G26/27 and it was by far the smallest yet fit my hand very well. I shot an IDPA match last month with my G26 and took first place against guys shooting there full size IDPA guns, so the little Glocks can shoot!
 

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He is looking at 3 totally different formats. The XD is DA only but striker fired,
Actually the XD is single action only as defined by the ATF. If he is looking at the XD, he should really take a look at the S&W M&P.
 

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Actually the XD is single action only as defined by the ATF. If he is looking at the XD, he should really take a look at the S&W M&P.
I held the M&P last week and was a little freaked out by the hinging trigger safety. It felt good in my hand and I would imagine it is reliable, but I couldn't get the trigger out of my head.
 

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Yea, the trigger safety on the M&P is kinda funky for me as well.

Having owned an XD in .45, I'll tell you it's a great pistol for the money. But your buddy better be 6' 8" and weigh 350lbs if he wants to conceal even the "compact" version. She's a chunky mother. It's also got a pretty good trigger, but it DEFINITELY needs to be broken in, and until then it feels a little "off," whereas sigs and HKs will have a smooher trigger out of the box.

He can get the .40 XD in Sub Compact, but it's not much smaller than the USPc is in any caliber. Personal opionion, he should go for the .40 USPc if he's OK with the trigger. Only having eight rounds is a big reason why many people don't carry 1911s (even though they're super flat and comanders conceal pretty damned well).
 

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The nice part of the hinged trigger is YOU DON'T NOTICE IT. It's not like a Glock or XD where you can always feel the trigger safety. It functions the same way.
 

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obviously i lean towards any hk but one of my range friends has a couple of xds both 45 one standard one compact. i have to say i like the feel of both, not better the my usps but thay are nice. the only problem i know of is with the sight on the standard, it shot very low out of the box so sent it back to s.a. it came back now it shoots left and i mean by a lot i shot it and could not believe it. so he is sending it back again we will see what happens this time.
 

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I have a 4" xd 9 and I love it. It has over 1500 rounds through it and has never had a single issue. It did take about 600 rounds to break the trigger in. If he is just getting into shooting the xd would be a good gun. There are several places that do xd work.
 

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The only XD I've been impressed with is the .45 compact. Being able to switch between compact (10+1) to full size (13+1) by just swapping the magazine is a nice feature.

The Sig P229, P239, or P220 compact, should meet all his needs. Sig also has the SAS models which are designed for CC.

Has he looked into Walther?

The P99C or PPS could work nicely as well. If I could carry in WI, I'd have a hard time finding anything better than the PPS. The only issue I could see would be in the .40sw chambering. The PPS in 9mm is really nice, but the .40sw might be a bit much for it. However, it would meet his criteria.

There is of course the P2K, which I really like in .40sw, but like most HK's, the trigger is the low point. A trip to Bruce Gray and friends could smooth and lighten it out, but that would take him over his price range.

Out of the box, comparing HK, Sig and XD's, a Sig would meet his needs the best. If he's unwilling to look outside of those choices and consider Walther, that would be the way I'd go.
 

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IMO, he should choose the one that fits best and feels best in HIS hand. I had an XD40 that I liked a lot as my first pistol. That is... until I fired an HK USP. :) The USP fit my hand much better than the XD. I was able to get the web of my strong hand much higher and tighter to the grip and it feels more natural.

If he likes the XD and it fits him well, it's a superbly reliable weapon as well. With his budget he could easily get the XD that he wants and add a Springer Precision trigger job and he'll have a nice piece.
 

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The nice part of the hinged trigger is YOU DON'T NOTICE IT. It's not like a Glock or XD where you can always feel the trigger safety. It functions the same way.
I can't stand the Smith hinged trigger. It always digs into my trigger finger right on the edge near my nail. I do have sausage fingers though....

I used to have an XD40 Tactical that I used for IDPA and Duty. I could conceal it just fine. I am 6'2 and 230 though. I conceal my USP 45 fine also. I do have a much easier time concealing smaller guns though. The only reason that I got rid of it is because someone paid me about what I paid for it and what I put into it in accessories. I figured that I should jump on it since that will never happen again. I bought my USP 45 and the HKrack took hold... Besides, I want the 45 version, and it wasn't out when i bought mine, I got mine around when they were coming out.

In the end, he should get what fits best for him.

All the guns are fine weapons and will treat him well.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
What's wrong with the HK trigger? I've never fired any HK that I could not fire just as well and smoothly as any other gun.

Then again, I have never had to adjust to any type of trigger on any handgun I've ever fired. I dislike the XD/Glock trigger styles the most.
For the most part HKs are not known for their super smooth triggers. They have long resets and the DA trigger for the most part sucks. Carrying in SA isnt bad, but there are many other manufacturers out their with better SA triggers IMO. its the LEM that sets them a part from other guns, and its what I absolutely love, but if I was looking for a DA gun, unless I went LEM, HK would not be my first choice.
 
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