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Discussion starter · #21 ·
We know HK is capable of producing very accurate guns. If the Army contract spec'd 2 MOA, and HK met that requirement, there's really no reason to keep trying to squeeze extra precision out of the gun. Some of the most accurate 308 bolt guns I’ve ever shot also had 1:8” twist. Just some food for thought.
100% Agree. The SDMR was designed to run sub 2MOA in all weather conditions. Being able to have the same ballistic character whether at sea leavel or a mile high, in cold or in heat, was the mission set for the rifle. Tighter shot groups were sacrificed in order to meet this need, as the users of this rifle would not be running DOPE or thinking about ballistics. It is the reason for pushing the round to 1:8 twist to spin the round as hard as possible to ensure stability of a 175gr round.

I would however like to see what the M110A1 can do with a Federal SMK 175gr, a Hornady TAP ELD Precision 175gr, and a Federal Berger Juggernaut 185gr at that twist rate. So while we can speculate, the proof is in the pudding, as they say. We need to see shot groups, and also, what the rifle can do beyond 600 meters, if not beyond 800 meters, with these rounds, and at different altitudes.
 
Discussion starter · #24 ·
An update which I eventually need to put into this thread regarding first generation MR762s versus modern MR762s:

I sent my sub 001200 serial number 2012 MFD MR762 to HK in Georgia for warranty work. That it wouldn't cycle Hornady TAP ELD AR, Federal GMM and M118LR effectively and reliably, was of significant concern.

Their initial techs couldn't find anything wrong. The rifle then went on to Jesse Teague who some may know is H&K's Senior Engineering Technician at their Prototyping & Research Lab. He too couldn't find anything wrong, until the bore scope was brought out.

This might explain the issues that many first generation MR owners have: the barrel gas port was not properly deburred from the factory. As each round is sent through the barrel, the sharp edges of the gas port shears each round, building up a copper jacket inside the gas port itself. As it builds up, less and less gas is able to be sent through the port, effectively under gassing the entire weapon system.

The rifle barrel is being removed, stripped, machined, deburred, rebuilt and reassembled to current manufacturing specifications. I've asked them to overgas the rifle to ensure I can shoot the softest match grade rounds on the market, effectively Hornady TAP ELD AR 168gr for my best use case, short of having the rifle so over gassed that it risks damaging the rifle if I run a HUXWRX can.

Once I have more details, and the rifle is in my possession, I'll do shot groups again, compared to my 2022 MR762 LRP.

I also want to get my hands on a modern 2021+ MR762 base with 1:12 contoured barrel to 1) compare weight and ballistics and 2) actually run a bore rod through to measure EXACTLY what the barrel rotation is, for the folks at HK Georgia didn't even know that the twist rate was changed.

If anyone has a medium contour barrel and can run a bore rod to measure exactly what the twist rate is -- not just what we are hearing on paper -- it would be a huge help.
 
This might explain the issues that many first generation MR owners have: the barrel gas port was not properly deburred from the factory. As each round is sent through the barrel, the sharp edges of the gas port shears each round, building up a copper jacket inside the gas port itself. As it builds up, less and less gas is able to be sent through the port, effectively under gassing the entire weapon system.
Yeah...you clearly don't understand that all the gas siphoned to run the piston or DI system goes through the port AFTER the bullet passes the port and the dynamics of gas flow and pressure.

And I'm not sure you quite comprehend that even nasty port jobs like this chrome-lined CHF barrel get knocked down in very short order:
Image


Likely as not, your port looks more like this:
Image


I also had a good laugh at your insistence on how you want the port "tuned" for your "soft" 168gr TAP.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Yeah...you clearly don't understand that all the gas siphoned to run the piston or DI system goes through the port AFTER the bullet passes the port and the dynamics of gas flow and pressure.
Correct: the gas is siphoned and pushed through the gas port after the bullet passes through. So, as the bullet runs past the burr in the barrel at the gas port -- as said above -- it scrapes and strips a small amount of copper right into the gas port, like a cheese grater. Since this stripped copper from each round going through the barrel builds up, and subsequently the barrel material is harder than the copper round, it becomes clogged. And if the gas port is clogged, with the copper jacket buildup having no place to go, then, it is, by all intents and purposes, "under gassed."

Further, a chrome lining burr -- chrome being a significantly softer metal than HK's French Cannon Steel -- is different than a machined burr from the unlined barrel of the MR. It will NOT be "knocked down" as you put it.

I also had a good laugh at your insistence on how you want the port "tuned" for your "soft" 168gr TAP.
Considering that the Hornady TAP ELD AR round shoots softer than the Hornady TAP ELD Precision, let alone the Hornady Match, A-MAX or Black rounds, then, yes: I will let the senior engineers at H&K decide on how best to gas the rifle to ensure I can shoot this round reliably and effectively, without fail. If a 0.25mm or a 0.01mm gas port increase ensures that this round shoots reliably every single round without fail, then I could call this "tuned."

The takeaway from this is, as per past threads on this forum, others have had cycling issues with their first generation MR762s. Many concluded that they were gas differently than current MRs, when more than likely, the barrels were not properly deburred from the factory. This is significant and means many first generation MR owners who find their rifle to be "ammo sensitive" should consider that it simply needs some warranty work with modern machining capabilities.

But if all you took away from this entire thread was some giggles, then if nothing else, I'm glad I could make you smile today!
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
Interesting. Just got an email from Jesse Teague at H&K. He said the following:

"Just an update, went ahead and punched the gas port out to 1.6mm as that is the current spec., correctly deburred the port and installed a tighter fitting gas block. Yours fit just fine but we’ve found the tighter the better. It’s going to go out for accuracy testing from our fixture either tomorrow or Wednesday. Barring any disasters, should have it back on its way to you by Thursday."

So, now this confirms that 1) previous generation MRs had a smaller spec gas port like originally concluded and 2) they also had the burring issue. Double trouble. That the gas block is different spec (tighter tolerances) on modern versus old, is also interesting.

Sharing this here so it can be added to the original document once everything is concluded. I'll start updating things shortly.

I also need shot groups from a 2021+ MFD 1:12 MR, to provide better analysis, so that my own 1:11 shot groups aren't the only thing being shown.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
I got some feedback. Standard spec gas port is 1.60mm for the MR762. The size of the gas port after the copper jacket was removed on my personal 2012 MR was 1.53mm. Jesse sent me the following:

"I went back through my technical archives to double check some information, the spec. for the gas ports has always been 1.6mm, yours was at 1.53mm which tells me it was one of the last if not THE last on that particular tool's run."

So, mystery finally debunked on why early MRs were sometimes ammo sensitive. 0.07mm and a slight burr in the gas block made all the difference. I need to hunt down the other old posts regarding this again, and add this info to them, for those in the future having issues.
 
I also need shot groups from a 2021+ MFD 1:12 MR, to provide better analysis, so that my own 1:11 shot groups aren't the only thing being shown.
I am not sure where your located, but I have a MR762 built March/2023 that is 1:12. The quality of the build and accuracy of these rifles is fascinating to me, I have easily shot 1" groups with Bosnian Igman 147gr 308 from a bipod. I am sure its sub MOA with better ammo.
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
I am not sure where your located, but I have a MR762 built March/2023 that is 1:12. The quality of the build and accuracy of these rifles is fascinating to me, I have easily shot 1" groups with Bosnian Igman 147gr 308 from a bipod. I am sure its sub MOA with better ammo.
If you can get a 10 shot group photo done using precision ammo i.e. Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr or Hornady ELD Match 168gr, I would be very interested to see what you can do. Please take a photo, and use Ballistic-X to show your shot groups. I've yet to see any shot groups with the new MR. But, I'm near the rocky mountains
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
Okay. I've done one last edit. I'm pooped. If anyone sees any mistakes, whether they are grammatical, contextual or factual, please comment so I can edit and fix things. This is an important thread for anyone who dives into precision shooting with the MR762, and I need to not have any pride in it to ensure it maintains its facts.

Admins, can we consider pinning this to the main 417 category? @HKPRO?
 
Amazing content thank you for doing all of this- I just got the MR762 Lrp3. Not interested in the Vortex scope/mount so I am taking that off, giving to a friend and going to use a spare ATACR 1-8 with Spuhr mount. I ordered a 1000 rounds of Federal premium 175 HPBT SMK. Even If the rifle doesn’t like it I needed to stock up for my Armalite Super SASS. I may order some of the rounds you mentioned.

When I can get to the range for a few full days I am going try to compare my LRP3, SCAR 20s in 6.5cm and the Armalite. See whats what.
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
Heard from H&K. They sent these target shots from their testing bench, using different ammo at 100 yards with my 2012 MR762 DMR after repairs were completed.

Seeing 1/2 MOA is impressive. Seeing 0.341 MOA from a 3-shot group is astounding, especially from Federal 168gr SMK GMM that has a lower ballistic coefficient than most modern precision ammo on the market today.

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