[lupinsea]

Looking for advice on ways of getting into an MP5.

I've been jonesing for a 9mm MP5 for ages, it almost hurts as I'm sure you all can sympathize. And while I have the Walther-made MP5-22 and love it. . . . I'd still prefer it in 9mm. The Walther would get sold to help finance the 9mm MP5.

I'm looking for a good shooter (not a museum piece) with a stock and 16" barrel. And I have some limitations I need to work around, please see below.

Here is what I see as my options:


1) Omega MP5 from Atlantic Arms - $2k
Seems to have gotten good reviews and also seems priced well for a 16" barreled MP5 complete rifle. Unforunately, Atlantic seems to be perpetually sold out of these.

There might be other builders out there like Kelly Enterprises or maybe (mayyyybeee?) one of Bretheren Armaments production guns. But, I dunno. Timely availability is the issue and budget as these others are more expensive.

Other suggestions?

Looking for a good shooter with a straight and true build-up. Not all the bells and whistles.



2) MP5 "Pistol" from various - $1600 +/-
The MP5 pistol variants from Atlantic to Zenith to POF, etc. seem to be in the $1600-1700 range. They get decent reviews and sound like good shooters. However, I don't really want a pistol version. That said, I could see getting an MP5 pistol, then pinning a barrel extension on, then getting a stock to turn it into a rifle at some point down the road.

Any recommendations for candidates on this route? Looking for most compatible with HK MP5 stocks, barrel extensions, and mags. Don't care about a FA seer host.



3) Omega MP5 Barreled Upper from Atlantic Arms - $1500
Or possibly a barreled upper from ?? (Atlantic?) . . if they are in stock. I'd at least be able to get it now and could add stock / trigger pack / grip later.


My preferences are:

#1 is my preference, just get it done.
#2 would at least get me a functional firearm until I could convert to carbine.
#3 gets me a grandfathered receiver but no functional firearm til later.





However, there are some parameters I need to work around:

Budget - Pt 1
I don't have the budget for a top end build like Ghilliebear or Dakota Tactical. I can probably do $2k if I reeeaaaaaally stretch things which I think would get me a second tier good shooter such as Zenith, Omega, POF, etc. Not looking for (or can afford) a museum piece.

Budget - Pt 2
To make this work, I need to sell a couple other things first (Robsinson M96 rifle and some milling equipment) but I'm halfway to $2k now. How long will it take to sell these things? No idea.

Time Crunch
In WA state our wonderful Attorney General is pushing an Assault Weapon Ban this legislative session. IF it passes it probably won't go into effect immediately. If it fails there will be an initiative push to get the public to vote for a ban (which probably would pass but a few years down the road). The situation has me worried enough that I'm trying get my gun collection reoriented now so I'm not wrapped up in panic buying later. . . . I'm doing my panic buying now to beat the rush.

Competing Priorities
Sigh. Alas, the MP5 is not the only thing on my radar.

FAL - For some reason I'm late to the party on this but I'm really wanting one now after learning about this. It would make a nice companion to my PTR 91. DS Arm's Voyager at $1100 would be what I'd probably get if buying new.

MP5 - See above. Want. Want bad. I already have a 9mm sub gun in the Sig MPX but still want MP5.

UMP Conversion - I have a USC. I hate the stock. I lust after the UMP, too. But I can do this later if an AWB passes.

Magazines - UUnngaaarrgh! #*@$% Mag ban is also on the AG's agenda for WA. Which means I also need to get a enough magazines for all my rifles and pistols to potentially last a while. I'm figuring this is about $350 worth (AR15's, MPX, MP5, G3, Beretta 92 FS, CZ 75, etc.) plus another $300 for UMP mags for a future conversion.​

No NFA BS / Want a Stock / Don't like "Arm Braces"
Also, I don't want to deal with an NFA firearm. So no SBRs. And I don't like the "arm braces". Cool idea but I want a real butt stock.



Wild Card(s)
Alternatively, if I can't make the MP5 happen I'm also looking at an Vector HK 53 or 93 (I'd probably want to go HK53 as it sort of looks MP5-ish but takes .223). It would certainly be cheaper by a substantial amount.

Basically, it'd be MP5 pistol now for later carbine conversion or HK 53 / 93 clone now and be done with it.



Dunno. . . . seeking advice from the collective here. Much appreciate anything you can offer.

 

[caf82313]

Budget - Pt 1
I don't have the budget for a top end build like Ghilliebear or Dakota Tactical. I can probably do $2k if I reeeaaaaaally stretch things

Not saying he will but give Ghilliebear a call/email an tell him what your budget is he might be able to work something for you he was trying to keep these under $2k http://www.hkpro.com/forum/parabell...3-hey-guys-iam-working-another-group-buy.html

 

[lupinsea]

Cool! I think I will call him as I get close to having the funds ready to buy. But I think it might be a long shot.

 

[Exotic-Toys]

Good Morning,

I think you're making a good call jumping on an MP5 before an assault weapons shut down in your state. However, I would skip the FAL - just my opinion, but a very clumsy, outdated weapon that eats expensive .308. I've owned 6+ (STG's, Isreali HB, Para, etc). If you have the money get both, but if you cannily have one the MP5 is my weapon choice 10/10 times.
MP5 is what we call a family gun in my household. Honestly, my daughter learned to shoot it at 7- now almost 18. My wife is not a hug fan of shooting, but ENJOYS shooting the MP5. We go every couple months to an indoor range and dump 1000 K plus rounds...love to kill our paper zombies. That is not something they would do with a FAL.

Options.. pistol omega stripped upper (only to keep your expense down with the US parts) + FAKE can + stock of your choice after you get the can pinned. I use to have the pinned can - its fine. Yes, Atlantic did have some last night when I checked. - put it on Atlantic layaway(45 days).

Good Luck..

 

[Fade2Blk]

Just pick up the available pistol version of your choice and add the barrel extension and stock as cash allows. People do this everyday, really not that complicated at all.

 

[ObviousLobster]

I second the option that has you buying a pistol and pinning an extension such as a fake can onto the end then buying a stock. Buy either the MKE or POF, whichever tickles your fancy. Or start out a little cheaper with an Omega receiver and build it up piece by piece from there. The important thing is to pay attention to the features of what you're buying. Paddle mag release? Front pin capable? Magwell sling attachment? Three-lug?

A rifle will likely not come with any of the desirable features like paddle mag release, unless it is a custom build and as you know those almost always go for over $2k.

 

[lupinsea]

Alight. . . . sounds like the pistol version is the way to go. The more i thought about it the more your suggestions made sense, though it does add another "gun project" along with my UMP conversion. And I think by the time I get done adding the barrel extension and stock I'll be at that $2k mark anyways, except that I can spread out the last few hundred dollars till another time.

As for the pistols on the market my understand is that for what I'm looking for, the order of descending quality is:

Omega
MKE (Zenith)
POF

?

Did I miss any and is that a good order?

I'll need to look into each but I want to make sure I won't have any problems getting to where I want to go (MP5 carbine w/ stock or HK 94-clone setup).




Holy cow. . . . I just realized a local gun shop has an MKE AT-94-A2 (HK 94) available for $1350. This is exactly what I'm looking for in terms of configuration. Sounds like it's used as it's listed in "very good condition." Looks like it has the 16" barrel but the listing says it's actually a pistol. I might call tomorrow and get some more information about it. It only comes with a 10 rd mag. I thought I heard there was a batch of one of the production clones (Zenith / MKE?) that limited the size of mags that it would accept?

Thoughts on this gun?


Oh, and should I be careful to make sure I'm in 922(r) compliance if I go the pistol route (922r project 1, 922r project 2)? Or if the above gun is still available?

I've read up on what I'd need to do to the USC / UMP conversion, but not with the MP5 platform.

 

[scottinthegrove]

Search 922(R). You don't want to get this thread to go down that road. Short version, rifles should comply and pistols don't need to. Some 16" barreled pistols were imported. There were also 16" rifles but there are a couple of bars "tacked" into the magwell and the rifles were shipped with 10 rd mags.

It is my understanding that a USC / UMP conversion would run around $3,000, so that might be a little out of your budget. Special Weapons made a SP 10. It is based on the roller locked mechanism but has a polymer receiver. There is one on GB http://www.gunbroker.com/item/612945561 that seems in your price range.

If you are worried about a state ban and need to raise cash, look at your collection. What won't be effected by this ban that you could sell now and replace later? Roller locks are expensive. There is no "cheap" way into a roller lock, especially if you are in a hurry. Deals can be had, especially if you have cash in hand. I have found between Xmas and when refund checks start rolling in, deals can be had. Of course until those refund checks do roll in, it will be hard to get top dollar for what you want to sell. Good luck with your 9mm roller locked rifle project.

Scott

 

[leibstandarte10]

Get an Omega or Zenith pistol. You can add a brace later if you don't want to go the SBR route.

 

[lupinsea]

Ok, I'll look up the 922(R) compliance separately.

Omega / Zenith, check.

Question on the Omega . . . Is that a "US" build? Are there enough U.S. parts that I could do a carbine conversion and not have to worry about 922(R) compliance? I haven't counted up all the parts but it sounds like it.


As for the USC / UMP conversion: I already have the USC. I've had it for 14+ years. Just finally getting around to the conversion. At this point, near as I can figured it'll run me about $900 - 1k in parts for the stock block conversion, plus extra for magazines / follower/floorplate kits. I'm still torn on just getting the US magazines or the German HK mags and mag kits. Sounds like some early production US mags were having problems with the feed lips failing but that was a little while ago. Not sure if it's been corrected yet. I'd be doing the work myself to do the conversion, after researching it, I'm not afraid to tackle it.

 

[wrongrecroom]

The Omega is a USA build so 922 is ok ..The others as pistol do not fall under the 922r /sporting test import laws .

I have used some of the clone HK pistol and are very nice ..I still like the para stock on the HK94 I used but the newer braces etc are pretty darn nice


The only downside to a rifle I can see other then barrel size and 922r is that most are not threaded so at most you could just have the end threaded 1/2x28 and go from there


Me I still think a Pistol would be a good place to start as they are nasty imported guns ....

 

[lupinsea]

The Omega is a USA build so 922 is ok ..The others as pistol do not fall under the 922r /sporting test import laws .

Me I still think a Pistol would be a good place to start as they are nasty imported guns ....

It is sounding like the Omega pistol would be my best bet if I can't get one of their rifles. I really want a normal stock, not a brace. And I don't want to deal with going the NFA route and all that comes with it, so I'm willing to put up with longer 16" barrel. If that's my ultimate goal then I need to make sure I end up with something 922(R) compliant. If the Omega rifle is not available when I'm ready to buy, it looks like the Omega pistol gets me closest to my final goal. All I'd need to do is pin a barrel extension and then I can put on a stock, the rest of the gun would already be in compliance.

Let me throw this out there, too:

WA state has had a handgun registry since 1994. So . . . if I get the pistol version it'll be in the registry, which I'm not thrilled with (granted, all of my pistols are post 1994 purchases so they are in there). If I convert it to a rifle later, I'm not sure how I'd go about removing it from that registry, if I could. Where as if I get either a rifle barreled upper or complete rifle, well, it's not in the registry to start with.

Thoughts on this last point?

 

[ObviousLobster]

Holy cow. . . . I just realized a local gun shop has an MKE AT-94-A2 (HK 94) available for $1350. This is exactly what I'm looking for in terms of configuration. Sounds like it's used as it's listed in "very good condition." Looks like it has the 16" barrel but the listing says it's actually a pistol. I might call tomorrow and get some more information about it. It only comes with a 10 rd mag. I thought I heard there was a batch of one of the production clones (Zenith / MKE?) that limited the size of mags that it would accept?

Thoughts on this gun?

Be careful buying imported rifles like that. The import (and export if it comes from EU) restrictions are pretty cumbersome. For reference, see this post. The short of it is that there are bars welded into the magwell to block the insertion of non-modified magazines (mags that have corresponding slots milled out of them and are limited to five or ten rounds only). Also the 'lower' and buttstock are welded together. If you don't mind those weird changes, then go ahead and order one of those. If you'd prefer to have something more 'authentic' without all the really dumb legislated oddities on it, then the MKE/POF/Omega pistol is the way to go.

 

[fargo007]

Good Morning,

I think you're making a good call jumping on an MP5 before an assault weapons shut down in your state. However, I would skip the FAL - just my opinion, but a very clumsy, outdated weapon that eats expensive .308. I've owned 6+ (STG's, Isreali HB, Para, etc). If you have the money get both, but if you cannily have one the MP5 is my weapon choice 10/10 times.
MP5 is what we call a family gun in my household. Honestly, my daughter learned to shoot it at 7- now almost 18. My wife is not a hug fan of shooting, but ENJOYS shooting the MP5. We go every couple months to an indoor range and dump 1000 K plus rounds...love to kill our paper zombies. That is not something they would do with a FAL.

Options.. pistol omega stripped upper (only to keep your expense down with the US parts) + FAKE can + stock of your choice after you get the can pinned. I use to have the pinned can - its fine. Yes, Atlantic did have some last night when I checked. - put it on Atlantic layaway(45 days).

Good Luck..

Seconding this. My 13YO Daughter runs all of mine like a boss. I've also had FAL's and sold them.

 

[lupinsea]

Alrighty, thanks for the help, guys.

I'm going to pass on the local MKE AT-94. Looking into it I'd have almost as much into it after doing all the 922(R) compliance stuff that I might as well just go with an Omega. They seem to be what i'm after with options for either a proper carbine or pistol (then carbine conversion) depending on what's available when I'm in the market.

I'm still interested in the FAL but it's moving down the list if there is anything after the MP5. The MP5 is a much better fit for what I prefer when I go out shooting: out to the local shooting pits up in the surrounding forest and mountains around Seattle. Distances are short, in the 25-70 yard range. It's to the point that even my AR-15 is sighted in for 50 yards to match my shooting style and local conditions. And I prefer plinking at cans, vegetables, and things that do something when they get hit vs. paper targets. There aren't too many long distance shooting areas near by that aren't at "official ranges" . . . which I don't like because they are so restrictive (understandably for safety, however). When my friends and I go out we like to mix it up with some variety of rifles and pistols. When the weather turns we hit the indoor ranges where where rifle caliber guns are not allowed.

Thus, my interest in the pistol caliber carbines.

That said, I do have a few semi-auto .223 rifles (AR-15, ACR, and Robinson M96 (which is for sale if any one is interested), and two extra AR-15 lowers . . . just in case).

And I have a PTR 91 G.I. R. I don't expect to shoot the .308 that much for cost reasons but I like having it and I'd still like to get the FAL if I can. And the more I read about the FAL, it's history, and how it operates the more I'd like to have one if just to have one. Most likely candidate is the DS Arms Voyager.

But later. Hopefully.

Thank you again, everyone! This really helped point me in the right direction.