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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone heard of or shot a BPP23E (or 21E) by beltfed precision products? They say that they are a lower cost clone maker. They offer most other HK clones too. I was wondering if anyone knew how the BPP23E compares to the MM23E with a sear. Craftsmanship, reliability, service etc.

https://www.beltfedinc.com/products/bpp23e
 

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He has turned out some bad parts, BUT he has fixed all the problems from everyone I have talk to. He is **** for comms, hard to get a hold of. He also doesnt have a SOT so he cant test f/a guns unles he runs across the border.

I posted about my experience, and I know about 4 other guys that had problems, but they were all fixed but they had to deal with slow comms.

I personally think they are better than the MM guns, but then again I've seen a a drawer full of bad MM parts and bondo finishing.
If you do decide to go with him source your own accessories (bipod/nutsack/etc) and low down payment as the gun will take forever to ship.

BTW you wont get a real BPP vs MM discussion on this forum, as hk21man is very vocal and has the support of the board.
 

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I've got no personal experience with Michael's Machines, but I took the advice of a trusted HK builder and went with BPP as he's had nothing but great results over the years with their products. My BPP23E was delivered only a month or so late, but it's worked flawlessly without any modifications or fixes needed. Love it! Not going to get into BPP vs MM here. I'm just glad we have options and parts suppliers!
 

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He has turned out some bad parts, BUT he has fixed all the problems from everyone I have talk to. He is **** for comms, hard to get a hold of. He also doesnt have a SOT so he cant test f/a guns unles he runs across the border.

I posted about my experience, and I know about 4 other guys that had problems, but they were all fixed but they had to deal with slow comms.

I personally think they are better than the MM guns, but then again I've seen a a drawer full of bad MM parts and bondo finishing.
If you do decide to go with him source your own accessories (bipod/nutsack/etc) and low down payment as the gun will take forever to ship.

BTW you wont get a real BPP vs MM discussion on this forum, as hk21man is very vocal and has the support of the board.
It is very very difficult to get a DWP(dangerous weapons permit) in California... this is the only way you can have class 3 stuff in California as an SOT only allows the FFL suppresors... you can have an SOT... but....without the DWP in the glorious state of California... for machine guns... you aren’t allowed. Yes one state over and a 07/02 SOT gets you a way to make your own machine guns... but this is California and this is what we have... the way to get a DWP in Cali means you have to
Be tied to a Hollywood production deal or somehow tied with a PD that has full auto and enough
Pull in either cases to get someone to sign off on it(damn near impossible) I believe there are only 100 or so DWP’s issued in California even though
Ca has some of the most per capita machine guns.
 

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I've got no personal experience with Michael's Machines, but I took the advice of a trusted HK builder and went with BPP as he's had nothing but great results over the years with their products. My BPP23E was delivered only a month or so late, but it's worked flawlessly without any modifications or fixes needed. Love it! Not going to get into BPP vs MM here. I'm just glad we have options and parts suppliers!
I'm glad to see that, I know you were part of the thread over at arf when we were discussing them.
 

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I had him build me a couple of mp5 clones and a 53 I ended up sending to parabellum to have all the other stuff fixed. he is okay but coms suck and when he has issues he told me that is how I order the parts when it wasn't. I for one wouldn't give him any of my business.
 

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I had him build me a couple of mp5 clones and a 53 I ended up sending to parabellum to have all the other stuff fixed. he is okay but coms suck and when he has issues he told me that is how I order the parts when it wasn't. I for one wouldn't give him any of my business.
Please enlighten me with what anyone had to fix on any of my guns if they actually are my guns.
You can pm or email me the SN's.
MM
 

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The Librarian
MP5-N and HK23E-K
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I’ve gotten a few chances to fire a few hundred rounds off of a buddy’s MM23E and it’s definitely a sweet gun to shoot! @Anopstyx has owned it for several years withover 60-70,000 rounds on it with out issue. Hopefully he sees this post and can add his own experience with it. I think that attests to Mike Otto’s craftsmanship of a quality build.

... and for what it’s worth, Carlos from BPP has always responded to each of my emails inquiries within a day, if not a week. I think people who want expect more immediate attention fall into a separate category, which is fine, but I have found that kind of attention requires a premium on services provided.

Either way, if you want to get into the HK belt-fed game, best to have both MM and BPP as options. (Competition is good for the consumer!) German HK21/23E parts are super rare and coming a high cost well over $10k without a barrel. Buying a complete (German) gun can easily cost $24k to $45k.
 

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I have owned a MM23e for quite a few years now and now have almost 90 thousand rounds through it. It was flawless for up to around 75k then needed small parts like extractor and spring. Normal wear items. Need to send my feed mech in for a tune up. Emailed Mike a few months ago and he responded very quickly said to send it back and he'll get it tuned up. I got busy and forgot to lol so sorry Mike I'll have to get in touch with you again about that. Absolutely love my Mm23e!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Lots of great advice on both gunsmiths. I’m really glad there are some options for the 21/23 guns. I’ve seen quite a few shooting videos on YouTube of MM guns. I’ve never seen one in person but all the pics of them look great.

Anyone having shooting videos of the BPP? Or even close up pics showing the quality?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
@Anopstyx

Wow! That’s a ton of rounds. How many rounds do you get out of a barrel? Also curious what accuracy is like. I know it’s an MG but wondering if it’s consistent at 200, 300+ yards.
 

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@Anopstyx

Wow! That’s a ton of rounds. How many rounds do you get out of a barrel? Also curious what accuracy is like. I know it’s an MG but wondering if it’s consistent at 200, 300+ yards.
Still using same barrel, it is smooth bore pretty much now but can hit a target at 100 yards still. They keyhole pretty bad but still hold a group. Used it for an electronic target shooting competition last summer, 15 different targets that deployed randomly 2 times at various distance for total 30 targets and got first place at around 27 seconds. Have new barrels as well that I use if i want to try and be accurate and can easily hit targets at 200, 300 yards in burst and automatic. Definitely a tac driver in semi as well just kinda boring
 

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That’s what I’m talking about!! Looks like it eats up steel cases just fine. How do you like the K? I like the look of it but also the full size too. Were there times where you wanted the longer version?
I can't speak for the 5.56 but I have a 21k that isn't the E version. The k is great as its easy to shoulder fire. Far more fun than the longer ones which I've shot but haven't owned.
 

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That’s what I’m talking about!! Looks like it eats up steel cases just fine. How do you like the K? I like the look of it but also the full size too. Were there times where you wanted the longer version?
I have a 21 and getting a 21a1, so I will have all lengths covered

I think the K is the best/funnest, especially in 556, no recoil and you can shoot it like a normal gun if you want. I can always throw in the long barrel if needed.
 

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Still using same barrel, it is smooth bore pretty much now but can hit a target at 100 yards still. They keyhole pretty bad but still hold a group.
I would check the headspace of the barrel. I've worn out mult barrels, shoot them until they keyhole but you need to be aware the throat will open up and the necks will spilt. It can get dangerous.
 
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