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Discussion Starter #1
After posting my intensions about having my SP89 re-stamped to MP5K while it was at Terry Dyer’s place getting a mag flap install and refinish I got some concern from some members here. There concern was after the Small Arms Review issue came out (spring I think) giving the impression it was no long OK with the ATF to do this. I sent an email inquiry and today I got the response.

This is what I sent.

"Is it legal to re stamp a handgun’s model number, example can you have an Heckler Koch SP89 re-stamped MP5K on the receiver for cosmetic reasons? Basically because it looks cool?"


This is what they sent back.


This is in response to your email to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In your you want to know if it is legal to re-stamp a handgun model number for cosmetic reasons.

A private gun owner is only required to maintain the serial number on their firearm frame or receiver – all other makings they may keep or remove at their discretion.

We trust this correspondence has been responsive to your inquiry. Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact your local ATF Industry Operations Office. A list of ATF Office telephone numbers can be found at ATF Online - Field Divisions.

Regards,

Firearms Industry Programs Branch, ATF



Read it carefully this is for private owners not necessarily for manufactures, Good Luck your projects, SP89 re-stamped to MP5K come to daddy. This was emailed to me and like Shattered said it's not in writing and if it was it would only be addressed to the requester.

Axe
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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That's a qualified answer and can be very misleading. The answers are different for Title I and Title II weapons.
 

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IIRC, 26 USC something something or other, the law says you can't remove or alter the serial number, but it doesn't say the same about the other markings. State law varies, and I'm sure ATF interpretations vary too.
 

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That's a qualified answer and can be very misleading. The answers are different for Title I and Title II weapons.
SG, Why is this answer "qualified?" I don't see that in the response itself; can you please say a bit more?
 

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The Federal government only requires that you not alter the orginal application of the serial number on Tiltle-1 firearms. You are NOT allowed to alter ANY markings of a Title-2 firearm UNLESS the change has been approved by the ATF.

For example, a gentlman brought a post-86 registered receiver HK94 to the shop with an ATF letter of approval for the remark AND and ammended Form-4 indicating the orginal model# as HK94 with "cosmetically remarked to MP5-N" noted on the form.

So while the written law does not explicitly approve or detail the procedure for remarking a Title-2 firearm, it can be done if you go about it correctly. In other words, get a CYA.
 

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So you can have a title 1 firearm remarked but not a title 2. So can you just remark it and then sbr it?
 

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ok i know it sounds dumb but what is the difference between title 1 and title 2? please go easy this is a serious question.
 

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Title 1 are pistols rifles shotguns. Title 2 are sbr's aow's and mg's.
 

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Yeah... basically, if you have a pistol (SP-89, CA-89, CA-89K, 53, 51Ks etc) and INTEND TO KEEP IT AS A SEMI... ALWAYS, then that particular letter works for the guy that wrote in the inquiry. If you throw the sear or registered trigger pack on it, you MAY have a problem. Might even have a problem if SBR'ed or AOWed... but apparently they don't care about that individual's semi-auto PISTOL.
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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This is why reprinting letters can get folks in trouble. Without the very specific details of the question being asked, the answer may or may not be appropriate for the next Joe reading the response. And there is a reason why this is not a general discussion: a LOT of folks with HK's tend to screw this up.

If you want to remark the *model* information of the weapon, you may do so, providing that your State law allows it, BEFORE you turn it into an NFA item (Title II). Once it becomes a Title II weapon (SBR, MG, etc.) you must receive explicit permission to remark from NFA Branch. And given the avalanche of paperwork they have, do not expect a rapid response. So if you are going to remark your weapon, do it before you apply for that stamp!
 

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So the way I read all this if I have a Volmer converted HK94 with a Fleming Sear and I want to divorce the sear from the HK94 by applying for SBR on the host, if it is already marked "MP5" then that is okay? All I would be doing is adding the trust information to the firearm.
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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That would be a question for a lawyer! The reason being that, from the way I understand your question, your HK94 is currently married to the sear and in order to divorce it you would need to SBR it because it is not in Title I configuration. This presents some problems, IMO. It is currently a part of a Title II gun (MG). Applying for an SBR stamp so that you can divorce the sear does not turn it into a Title I gun, it merely changes it into a different Title II gun... so you cannot remark the model without ATF permission. In order to remark without ATF permission, again IMO, and follow the exact letter of the law you would need to configure the host gun in Title I format (16"+ barrel, etc.) and then notify NFA Branch that the host weapon has been returned to Title I configuration and that the sear has been separated from the host... please update the NFRTR. Only THEN could you remark the model without permission... and then apply for your SBR stamp and put it back!

This is just my opinion and if this is something you really want to do, get with an NFA lawyer who has done this before. The moral of the story is that if you really want to re-stamp the model number, do it before it is turned into a Title II gun!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The information in my post was for a specific situation, concerns from other members that my semi form 1 gun might be in violation if I have it re-stamed MP5K. I didn't say it was going to become a short barrelled rifle or any other title 2 gun at least by me.

Although to be honest I didn't realize that it would be an issue so at least now I know to contatct ATF before doing it if I decide to.
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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And that perfectly illustrates my point!
 

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...This is just my opinion and if this is something you really want to do, get with an NFA lawyer who has done this before. The moral of the story is that if you really want to re-stamp the model number, do it before it is turned into a Title II gun!
Unless you have an SP89 or HK94, I really don't see the point of remarking a weapon. If your gun was made by any other than HK you might as well stamp M16 on it because in reality it will never be an MP anything IMHO. However if this is something you just want to do with you property which is fine, do it as a title 1 firearm. Pretty straight forward.
 

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Unless you have an SP89 or HK94, I really don't see the point of remarking a weapon. If your gun was made by any other than HK you might as well stamp M16 on it because in reality it will never be an MP anything IMHO. However if this is something you just want to do with you property which is fine, do it as a title 1 firearm. Pretty straight forward.
There are thousands of guns that have been remarked, especially Title II guns. Presample G3s that have been turned into G3ks, and I've seen a pre sample G3 converted into 21E. Hard Times Armory made "SD"s, but stamped them with an "S" after the original "94", making them an HK 94S. I wonder how many of those have been rebuilt and now read MP5-SD? Even guns that started out as 94s, were later stamped MP5, then were re stamped again MP5-N. I could go on, but the examples are almost endless.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
And that perfectly illustrates my point!
The difference is if I was going to make it a title one with a restamp I would have asked the question differently and this would be a different post thats why people need to read the post not read in to it.

When it comes to legal issues and your guns do you own resarch before you do something that might cause you problems.
 

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There are thousands of guns that have been remarked, especially Title II guns..
Yeah, so? Even if mfg'ed by HK what they are stamped now is an after the fact revision. Not really a big deal until they try to sell you something it is not for an inflated price.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
There are thousands of guns that have been remarked, especially Title II guns. Presample G3s that have been turned into G3ks, and I've seen a pre sample G3 converted into 21E. Hard Times Armory made "SD"s, but stamped them with an "S" after the original "94", making them an HK 94S. I wonder how many of those have been rebuilt and now read MP5-SD? Even guns that started out as 94s, were later stamped MP5, then were re stamped again MP5-N. I could go on, but the examples are almost endless.
Yea I was curious about that myself. Even if you took your title 2 guns and tried to put back to say 94 instead of MP5 you still woudl have modified modle number.
 
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