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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,
I'm looking to buy my first HK pistol. I shot them in the past but never owned. I'm looking for a new full size HD/Serious situations sidearm: It essentially comes down to the USP vs the P30L/Hk45 (I haven't decided on caliber yet, but as far as I understand the 30 and 45 are identical aside from bore/magazines.

With either one I will be.
- Upgrading the triggers as much as possible (keeping it SA/DA)
- NP3+ coating internals
- Mounting a red dot + light
- Match barrel
- + P ammo
- Running it suppressed sometimes
- Rarely carried, but if I ever did it would be in a sturdy drop down holster, so size/weight not an issue.

* Also, considering CCing the compact size of whatever I end up with so that same grip/controls makes practicing more efficient (though I might end up with a P2000)

So, ergo opinions aside, does one or the other have any advantage in:
- Accuracy
- Trigger smoothness/creep/overtravel (assuming max improvements)
- External Durability
- Reliability/Feed-exject issues
- Magazine issues.

I've shot them both once: obviously not enough to find any of this out for myself (and the were both currently more accurate than I was). The 30/45 seems to have an advantage with ambi-controls, adjustable grip, and picatinny rail vs HK proprietary, but everywhere I look the USP was more $. Opinions?

Thanks
 

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Priest of the P7
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The USP can be fitted with a match trigger.
It is easier to mount lights etc. on P30/45
There is no need to NP3 anything or for a match barrel. HK barrels are legendary.
The USP tactical models have a spring system that helps with running a can.

Which is better is up to the consumer. You can't go wrong with any of them.
 

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Might sound strange but if I were picking a 9mm, I'd pick the P30L. If I were going 45, I'd pick the USP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The USP tactical models have a spring system that helps with running a can.
Does this mean the USP doesn't need a booster, or just that it is more reliable when suppressed than the 30/45

The USP can be fitted with a match trigger.
Does this make a difference if either one is getting a complete Gray Guns action job?

Might sound strange but if I were picking a 9mm, I'd pick the P30L. If I were going 45, I'd pick the USP.
Aside from mag capacity, any reason why the USP is a better 45?
 

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Priest of the P7
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I wouldn't say the USP is more reliable, as the P30/45 will run suppressed just fine. You might just see less wear and tear over time/many rounds.

I can't really speak to trigger jobs as I've never had any use for them. When I operate the trigger on my Expert (USP match trigger) I can't imagine that any slight, barely perceptible and probably placebo improvement of the trigger would be worth the cash and time without the pistol, during which I could have been shooting it and just getting better with the trigger. But...I digress.
 

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Might sound strange but if I were picking a 9mm, I'd pick the P30L. If I were going 45, I'd pick the USP.
As I did. :biggrin:

Does this mean the USP doesn't need a booster, or just that it is more reliable when suppressed than the 30/45
No difference as to booster/no booster. The Tactical's recoil assembly better protects from the additional suppressed fire battering.

On the matching CCW gun, it depends on what you want.

For the USP/USPc 45, you get *very* similar feel, particularly if you are using the USPc's pinky extension magazine -- very much like gripping the same gun, including near-identical controls placement.* The cost of this arrangement is that while the USPc is certainly carry-able (I do), it is still relatively large for a "compact" model. 12+1 and 8+1 of .45.

In contrast, while not mouse-gun sized, the P30SK is notably smaller than the USPc (the grip is much shorter, my pinky is nowhere close to fitting on the SK's grip,** and I have medium-sized hands, glove size 9). The shooting experience as compared to a P30 is accordingly different, but not unmanageably so. Depending on whether you get a P30 or a P30L, the slide release may be in a slightly different position. 15+1 and 10+1 (or 11+1 with a +1 pinky extension) of 9 MM.

So, maximum concealability? maximum similarity? maximum capacity? less recoil? Your call.

* If you go USP, consider swapping the magazine release with the HK45's larger magazine release.
** Despite what appears to be a rather short grip, I've been pleasantly surprised at how comfortable and controllable the SK is to shoot.
 

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Some people tend to find that they shoot flat sided guns better, myself included. You also gain the option of the sweet match trigger systems whether it's the traditional double action or match hybrid LEM with the USP. I do find that the P30 magazine release is much better than the stubby one on the USP. I wouldn't worry about differences between durability and reliability, it's an HK.
 

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Aside from mag capacity, any reason why the USP is a better 45?
A lot of it does come down to mag capacity which I don't understand why the HK45 doesn't hold more. And my USP45 was in the room and could hear me :biggrin:
 

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With either one I will be.
- Upgrading the triggers as much as possible (keeping it SA/DA)
- NP3+ coating internals
- Mounting a red dot + light
- Match barrel
- + P ammo
- Running it suppressed sometimes
- Rarely carried, but if I ever did it would be in a sturdy drop down holster, so size/weight not an issue.
As others have stated,
USPT45 comes with a factory Match trigger, super accurate barrel and Hostile Environment finish.
BTW all my various model Hks are bombproof :biggrin:
 

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To answer your question directly, there aren’t a lot of important differences due to the fact that the P30, P2000 and HK45 are essentially just descendants of the USP, and the USP is already extremely reliable and shootable. The main differences, IMO, are the ergonomics, ambidextrous controls, accessory rail, and the peculiarities of how each gun’s trigger feels. The USP also has more parts available to play around with different factory configurations.

Hello,
I'm looking to buy my first HK pistol. I shot them in the past but never owned. I'm looking for a new full size HD/Serious situations sidearm: It essentially comes down to the USP vs the P30L/Hk45 (I haven't decided on caliber yet, but as far as I understand the 30 and 45 are identical aside from bore/magazines.

With either one I will be.
- Upgrading the triggers as much as possible (keeping it SA/DA)
- NP3+ coating internals
- Mounting a red dot + light
- Match barrel
- + P ammo
- Running it suppressed sometimes
- Rarely carried, but if I ever did it would be in a sturdy drop down holster, so size/weight not an issue.
To side-step your main question, I feel compelled to point out that your wish list here isn’t entirely consistent with your stated goal of it being a home defense pistol. I would say that reliability should be very high on a list of priorities for a defensive weapon, and while you’re on the right track with choosing an HK pistol, these guns are only proven reliable with the stock parts. Every modified part becomes an unknown element in the reliability equation.

Trigger jobs often involve using a lighter hammer spring (I believe some gunsmiths use a commonly available 10 pound hammer spring for HK pistols), and that can sometimes cause light primer strikes, particularly after the spring has gotten broken in, which may not show up for a thousand rounds.

I am not an expert on RMRs, but I have seen multiple people now with RMR’s on their Glocks where the RMR added so much extra mass to the slide that it affected the handgun’s ability to cycle all the way to the rear unless they were using heavy and/or overpressure ammo, thus decreasing overall reliability. Maybe not an issue if you only use heavy or overpressure ammo, but it may also bring out inconsistencies in that ammo.

The match barrel just seems unnecessary. You may not be aware, but match chambers are typically machined to extremely tight tolerances and can be picky about ammo. Inconsistencies in some brand of ammo that you may not have noticed with the stock barrel might show up when using a match barrel. The overall tightness of lockup can also exaggerate the effect of any dirtiness in the gun, which is another factor potentially reducing reliability.

As you observed when you shot these guns, handguns tend to be more accurate than their shooters. That’s not just for beginning shooters. Experienced shooters have made the observation as well. A lot of these modifications you're describing seem designed to make the gun more accurate or easier to shoot/aim with. Far-be-it from me to criticize how people spend their money on an HK forum, and I'm not actually saying that I disagree with you for wanting to clean up the trigger pull, but no amount of trigger polishing or laser attachments can make up for lack of training. IMO, HK triggers are very serviceable and the stock barrels are very accurate. If the alternatives decrease reliability, it may be worth trying to hone your skills using the factory configuration before pouring a bunch of money into the aftermarket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I appreciate all the feedback you guys have been really informative.

To side-step your main question, I feel compelled to point out that your wish list here isn’t entirely consistent with your stated goal of it being a home defense pistol. I would say that reliability should be very high on a list of priorities for a defensive weapon, and while you’re on the right track with choosing an HK pistol, these guns are only proven reliable with the stock parts. Every modified part becomes an unknown element in the reliability equation.
You are right. I realise that I might not have been using the correct terms at times. For example, I was getting the threaded barrels separately to save money, and the site I found them on called them "match grade barrels" but I realize now they are just HK OEM (which might even be match grade anyway). Also, I dont intend on putting anything unknown inside-anything I would change (like the longer mag release on the USP, or lighter springs) was going to come from Hkparts.com which I was told is reliable. As to the red dot you might be right (though I do plan on using +Ps)- it's just that the rear sights on all my handguns are combination night sight/low profile Picatinny, so I might throw on an RWR for fun. But when it's in my top drawer for the night it'll just have a light and a can.

After what people have said, I think I am leaning towards the P30 for the ergos/ambi-controls and better rail. Now, though, I'm utterly confused by what do about the trigger, because I do recall it being supbar compared to the rest of the gun.
- Between the SA-DA/LEM variants/DAO are so many action types, and some exclusive to the P30 or the USP, I can't make hide or hair of them.
- Is there anyway I could get a feel (no pun intended) for a few them, or do gun stores just stock random versions?
- Do the LEM kits need to be turned professionally?
- If I stick with SA/DA, can the reset/creep and weight be solved by just ordering the spare parts from Hk and dropping them in (I'm no idiot, but I'm not a seasoned gun guy), or would a professional trigger job a lá Grey Guns/Springer, etc be required to get it right.

I realize, some points can seem fussy, but I don't buy a lot of guns, so when I do I want to get it right. I plan on have this gun for a while, so I'd also prefer not to tinker over time adding this and that, but rather pay up front to have it all set up, and then just run it hard.

Thanks
 

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First of all;
Enjoy the journey; that's a big part of the fun of HK's vs other platforms

Have you spent any time on the"HK pistol troubleshooting" section of HK pro?.......it doesn't exist
There are of course malfunctions or problems that arise; but in my opinion it is a rarity, and often is followed up by what mods they attempted....
I don't ever see a thread about magazine problems or feed issues; or maybe I just don't notice them....

You will find that there aren't that many modifications required or even available with the HK lineup (except the LEM trigger and variant swap)
I would pick my caliber first; do you really want to shoot .45?
What can would you use? As they have different thread pitches
If you want a "Battle" pistol; which sounds like you do. I would look at the USP 9mm Tactical
If you want .45, look at the USP .45 tactical. The triggers are good to go, they are extremely tough, suppressor ready and reasonable capacity.

You may get it and be disappointed in the fact that its ready to go out of the box; the hk rail is the only negative for the USP's


I have a P30 and P30L V1 Light LEM 4.1 (its confusing at to what that all means, but its a lighter shorter reach pull)
and I justed got a USP .45T; next is a USP 9mm tactical or expert 9 for me....
 

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Priest of the P7
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To answer your question directly, there aren’t a lot of important differences due to the fact that the P30, P2000 and HK45 are essentially just descendants of the USP, and the USP is already extremely reliable and shootable. The main differences, IMO, are the ergonomics, ambidextrous controls, accessory rail, and the peculiarities of how each gun’s trigger feels. The USP also has more parts available to play around with different factory configurations.



To side-step your main question, I feel compelled to point out that your wish list here isn’t entirely consistent with your stated goal of it being a home defense pistol. I would say that reliability should be very high on a list of priorities for a defensive weapon, and while you’re on the right track with choosing an HK pistol, these guns are only proven reliable with the stock parts. Every modified part becomes an unknown element in the reliability equation.

Trigger jobs often involve using a lighter hammer spring (I believe some gunsmiths use a commonly available 10 pound hammer spring for HK pistols), and that can sometimes cause light primer strikes, particularly after the spring has gotten broken in, which may not show up for a thousand rounds.

I am not an expert on RMRs, but I have seen multiple people now with RMR’s on their Glocks where the RMR added so much extra mass to the slide that it affected the handgun’s ability to cycle all the way to the rear unless they were using heavy and/or overpressure ammo, thus decreasing overall reliability. Maybe not an issue if you only use heavy or overpressure ammo, but it may also bring out inconsistencies in that ammo.

The match barrel just seems unnecessary. You may not be aware, but match chambers are typically machined to extremely tight tolerances and can be picky about ammo. Inconsistencies in some brand of ammo that you may not have noticed with the stock barrel might show up when using a match barrel. The overall tightness of lockup can also exaggerate the effect of any dirtiness in the gun, which is another factor potentially reducing reliability.

As you observed when you shot these guns, handguns tend to be more accurate than their shooters. That’s not just for beginning shooters. Experienced shooters have made the observation as well. A lot of these modifications you're describing seem designed to make the gun more accurate or easier to shoot/aim with. Far-be-it from me to criticize how people spend their money on an HK forum, and I'm not actually saying that I disagree with you for wanting to clean up the trigger pull, but no amount of trigger polishing or laser attachments can make up for lack of training. IMO, HK triggers are very serviceable and the stock barrels are very accurate. If the alternatives decrease reliability, it may be worth trying to hone your skills using the factory configuration before pouring a bunch of money into the aftermarket.
This is very well put. In short -- screwing around with HKs is only going to be detrimental.
 
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