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Best all in one optic for Distance & CQB for our HK's???

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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
What is the best all in one Tactical optic with both illumination & with magnification for both CQB work and Distance for HK's? I hope to have a UMP in the future and have a G36k clone now and want an optic to switch between them?

Please vote in the poll and answer what you have and why you chose that optic. I am leaning towards the Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T because it has the reticile of the the Eotech both lit and unlit but has the magnifications of the Trijicon and it costs less than a $1000.
 

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I've got a Trigicon Acog with a Dr. Optic Red Dot Sight. The Acog is great by itself, but trying to get on with the iron sights below it is tough in CQB, thus, IMO the need for the lightning fast red dot. Just watch your mechanical off-set. Leupold's CQB is pretty good too, but it's like looking through a tunnel when close up. I went from a standard Acog, to a CQB, and now have a Acog with Dr. Optic. Just waiting til the next range day to sight it in.
 

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Am I hallucinating or did I see this post earlier with more threads.......? I was looking for it in reference to a S+B scope as well as another high end scope I cant recall..................
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Anyone have experience with the Valdada CQB? That would look cool on a UMP clone or even a G36c or k.

Just don't know if it is a both eye open type reticle like the Eotech or Mark4 CQ/T.

I personally am looking for the ability to go from 25 yards to 5-600 yards. I am open about the reticle pattern but like options.
 

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I REALLY like the IOR 1.5x8 on the 35mm tube, suspect its a bit much for the UMP but would work great on the G36, only downside is that its a heavy optic but its very clear and built like a tank. It has an iluminated retical with ranging
http://www.riflescopes.com/products/IOR158X26T223CH/ior_1.5-8x26_tactical_35mm_rifle_scope.htm


I have this on my HK93

the Leupold CQ/T gets mixed reviews, but the Leupold 1.5x5 seems to be well liked
http://www.riflescopes.com/products/LEU56994/leupold_1.5-5x20_mark_4_mr_t_30mm_riflescope.htm
 

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2 categories... Magnified and unmagnified:

Unmagnified:
For the 9x series, I don't like anything except Aimpoints, although there may be others I have not tried. So far, only the Aimpoint can sit low enough to allow me to co-witness through the optic. Like I said, there may be others, but none that I have tested. For me, the Eotechs sit too high for the really low sight plane on the MP5, HK93, etc.

Magnified:
Hard to beat the Acog, and with magnified you really can't co witness anyway, so mounting the optic higher is not a concern. I find no need for magnification on a MP5, but I do like magnification on the .233 and .308 paltforms.

I have no experience with the newer HK offerings like teh USC and SL8
 

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If 3x will work for you, I would suggest the Aimpoint M(L)3 with the addition of the twist off mounted 3x magnifier. It is in use by our military and leos; I can go from CQB 1X red dot (2 or 4) to 3X (by "twisting" on the 3X magnifier) with dot in a matter of 10 seconds or less! Aimpoint CS sets the standard for comparison and their parts are available virtually anywhere ... the key phrase in your inquiry is CQB/Distance ... the Aimpoint combo provides the best of both worlds and is rugged ... give them a call and speak to Tom ... he has helped me out and is more knowledgeable than anyone I've spoken with at other optics manufacturers over the course of the last 35 years!!! Co-wittness / coaxial mounting is available for most weapons ... PM if you need numbers or details. No, I DO NOT work for them!
:300000000:
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Anyone tried any other optics? I want something to go from CQB to distances of 400-600 yards.

The Aimpoint is nice but don't want to add the magnifier optic. I want one optic.
 

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I had actually been wondering about this same thing for a while now: if there was a good optic for both CQB (for me that means no magnification) and could be clicked to have magnification. I really like what I'm hearing about the Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T, but I'm wondering about the comment made above of how it's like looking through a tunnel: since you can aim with both eyes open, is this really an issue? Can you co-witness through one on an AR style platform?
 

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I had the Leupold CQ/T that I used with an AR-15 flat top. On paper, it looked like the best of both worlds, being able to use it for CQB on 1x and then dial in some magnification for longer distance engagement. In practice, I never liked it as a CQB scope. The post about looking through a tunnel is right on the money. There is no comparison to using an Aimpoint or Eotech. It worked well when magnified but there are better magnified scopes out there (ACOG). I ended up selling the scope as it really never lived up to my expectations.
 

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I have both an ACOG and IOR 1.1-4x26mm CQB, and keep going back and forth between the two. I really like the light weight and FOV of the ACOG, but the IOR works better when it comes to combining CQB/intermediate range. Although I really like the fact that there is no battery in the ACOG.

The Schmidt & Bender 1-4x20mm Short Dot seems to be very popular, and has gotten very good reviews, but costs $2200! I would really like to hear more about the Elcan SpecterDR 1x/4x, as this seems to be the best of both worlds - after all, one never really needs 2x or 3x, you just go from CQB 1x to intermediate range 4x without needing to turn a power ring past two other numbers.

Good luck finding a concensus, as everyone seems to have a strong opinion about what the best optic really is! The important thing is to find an optic that works best for you.
 

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I use 2 Zeiss Victory Varipoint scopes (a 1.1-4x24 and a 1.5x6-42) on drive hunts and they both would make excellent CQB scopes.
 

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Best optic

My experience has been limited to EoTech and Aimpoints. I've used both on the M16 and HK weapon systems. All said and done I vote for iron sights. The hooded front sight on the Mp5SD smack dab on target is accurate. I found myself being distracted by optics. I would like to have factory luminous inserts on all HK sights like the SIG 550 series.

As far as distance is concerned I vote for the HK33K with iron sights and luminous inserts as an all around CQB/distance rifle. I feel this would be the best weapon during the Zombie onslaught.
 

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My experience has been limited to EoTech and Aimpoints. I've used both on the M16 and HK weapon systems. All said and done I vote for iron sights. The hooded front sight on the Mp5SD smack dab on target is accurate. I found myself being distracted by optics. I would like to have factory luminous inserts on all HK sights like the SIG 550 series.

As far as distance is concerned I vote for the HK33K with iron sights and luminous inserts as an all around CQB/distance rifle. I feel this would be the best weapon during the Zombie onslaught.
I'll take my USC .45 with iron sights for the Zombies.

By the way is it worth it to get night sights for a USC?
 

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Par,

Here are a few dilemmas you face with switching optics.

1. You would have to re-zero each time that means you need to keep a chart for each rifle so your re-zero time can be minimized. Each rifle has a different point of aim and each caliber has different point of impact.

2. Wear and tear on the adjustment knob if you do this often. it is not that noticeable, but it happens if you switch back and forth with enough frequency.

3. it just looks lame with a magnified optic on a UMP... sorry, if this did not come out right.. Forgive me.. :)

Your choice...

1. EOTech or Aimpoint with magnifier. Used a quick release mount to switch the red dot back and forth, and mount the Aimpoint twist mount on the G36. Mark the zero of the primary rifle on the adjustment knob to indicate zero and have a note for your UMP zero, so once you set the zero for your UMP, you can just click back and forth as you switch rifle.

You already mention you did not want two optics.. May I ask why? I run my primary rifle with an EOTech 553 and a Aimpoint magnifier. Just pop on when i need a little magnifier. Actually I shoot out to 300m with my EOTech unmagnified. At 500m, I will pop on the 3X magnifier to make things a lot easier. EOTech 553 was chosen by the USSOCOM as the replacement to the Aimpoint, designated as SU231/PEQ Reflex sight.

2. Leupold CQ/T. At zero power, the Leupold has a awesome field of view, it equals or better an Aimpoint but not as good as an EOTech. At 3X, the eye relief becomes nil. the optic is huge, and the illumination isn't bright enough for day use.

3. Schmidt and Bender Short Dot.. At 2400.00 retail it is way too expensive for recreational shooting unless you got the dough. And you still have to shell out 150.00 for a nice LaRue SPR mount. This is the best general purpose optic money can buy. This is the optic the US Army Go very fast boys selected over the Leupold CQ/T. bright optic, zero stop, and it is bright enough for day use. many review on the S&B so i won't write an article on it.

4. Elcan spectre. 1600.00 is my last heard price. Dual ARMS throw lever, super fast throw lever to get from zero to 4X. Nothing in between the 1-4x. It is big and heavy.. it was selected as the USSOCOM SOPMOD Block 2 SU230/PVS 1-4X day scope. This is designated for use on SAW and GPMG. They also requested a doctor Optic to be mounted on top of the unit as an back up

5. ACOG TA01 with doctor optic or a ACOG TA31, or Compact ACOG. I like the TA31 because of the BAC feature, the bright triangle, can be seen with both eyes open for the fast shot and once focused, you have zoom into the magnification for the distance shot. it is not an easy optic to get used to, but once you did, it is about as great as slice bread. it is not as fast as the red dot and the magnification at 4x is not as clear as the S&B or even the Leupold, but like a good German Sheppard, it is not the best at anything, it is just good as everything. The TA01 with Doctor optic was selected as the day scope for the SOCOM war fighter as the SU237/PVS with MRD. MRD stands for Miniature red dot. But I think you would be best served with the Compact ACOG, it is great for CQB and with a slight 1.5x magnification and you can reach out to 3-400m with ease.

Hope this helps.
 

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Both my 91 & 93 clones are with the standard irons / claw with the hensoldt ZF24 4x scopes. I find this set up more than adequate for recreational shooting. However, if I needed something more "urgent" I would probably go for a B&T low mount tri rail, and have the ZF24 mounted on top and an aimpoint on the side. You could have the ZF24 on a QR mount (arms 19?) and have a third back up - your irons, to which I would add a luminous element.
 

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S&B short dot PMII

As an all-in-one package, this has to be it. I have one, and I'm very satisfied with it. I used an IOR 1.1-4x26 before (still have it) but the S&B has it all.
The IOR is as yellow as shooting glasses compared to the S&B. If you can justify the price of the S&B, check one out. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Of course, the 4x Hensoldts are great value for money, but they aren't variable. Even my oldest Hensoldt (gen.1) beats the IOR for clarity and "yellowness".
That said, the IOR is a reasonable value for money IMO.
Note: My IOR is the old model, not the current CRT.
 
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