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Discussion Starter #1
My wife shot her new out of the box P30S 9mm today and had 10 ejection problems out of 50 rnds of PMC Bronze 115gr. and also 2 with 10 rnds of Hornady FTX 115gr. We used both magazines and the problem persisted. I shot 15 of those rounds with no issues. Also I watched to see if she was coming into contact with the slide release or the mag release when she was firing and I could not see that she was making any contact on either. Needless to say, she became very frustrated with her new purchase but felt that she was doing something wrong. Not to mention that it was a short stay at the range. I have the exact same version P30 in .40 and have never had an issue or FTF. This seems odd to me and at this point I am calling it fault of the shooter, not the gun. I am going to put a couple hundred rounds through it this week and see if can replicate the malfunction. Anyone have any comments/advice or similar issues on their P30?
 

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I am guessing that she may be limp wristing and the pistol has a stiff new recoil spring in it. I would suggest you shoot it and get it broken in, and watch her control of the pistol while she shoots it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Apollo11, and I am sure you are right. She was definately limp wristing. Funny thing is she is dead accurate with my .40 but it is broken in. Good news is I get some extra range time this week! HKPRO Forum is the best!!
 

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Also Ditch that 115gr. ammo for 124gr. you'll be better off. The P30 series was designed around 124gr. Once you have a couple hundred rounds through it, she should be able to run 115gr. with out too much trouble.
 

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No problem, glad you are getting her out shooting. A lot of women are deadly accurate, and a lot easier to teach than men because they lack a lot of the ego guys do. Get some Winchester NATO for a few hundred rounds (bit hotter for the spring), and keep at it!
 

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Limp wristing just is NOT in the wrist, its also in the elbow and shoulder...if ANY of those 3 are not fairly rigid to give the pistol a solid platform to work against, this can happen. The USP Compact 9mm is stupid easy to get this going by limp wristing. Best easy fix I know of is to have her stand at just over arms length from a wall...make a fist and lean into the wall with fist rested against it, wrist, elbow, shoulder should be in a locked position to support herself against the wall ... its a very simple excersize to cure 'limp wristing' =)
 

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I ran std american eagle 124gr fmjs for 100 rounds, then immediately followed by 100 rounds of federal fmj. 0 failures. So far ive put 360 rounds downrange and the only malfunctions were my fiancé limp wristing it. control the firearm, dont let it control you. Dont let her shoot it much, she'll want 1 next. My fiancé has a px4 subcompact and when we go shoot she always wants to use my p30s
 

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Vdub5818 - sounds like its time to dump the Beretta and give her one of your P30's!! =)
Also helps to shoot a few hundred rounds of 124gr. NATO spec ammo to get the P30 settled in.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I ran std american eagle 124gr fmjs for 100 rounds, then immediately followed by 100 rounds of federal fmj. 0 failures. So far ive put 360 rounds downrange and the only malfunctions were my fiancé limp wristing it. control the firearm, dont let it control you. Dont let her shoot it much, she'll want 1 next. My fiancé has a px4 subcompact and when we go shoot she always wants to use my p30s

As I said, it is her P30. We got it two days ago. I have had my P30 for about three weeks. She had to have her own after only one time at the range. Now we have His and Hers.
 

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Could someone explain to me specifically what part of the design allows limp wrist failures to occur.

Of the guns ive owned, some have been prone to limp wrist failures and some havent. With my old HK45 and my USP40 I tried tirelessly to induce limp wrist failures and it wouldnt happen. And I tried it when they were fresh out of the box, with stiff springs, and cheap walmart target ammo. Heck I even let my girlfriend shoot them (she has a horrible grip), and they still cycled.

But with my Glock and my P2K, i can always get them to FTE if I try hard enough. I can't understand why some polymer-framed guns are susceptible and some aren't. The only thing I can think of is that the Hk45 and USP40 are full-sized guns vs. my Glock and P2K. Could that be it?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thank again everyone!!!
 

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Might very well be limp-wristing (i.e. a shooter induced stoppage). However, you also stated...

My wife shot her new out of the box P30S 9mm today...
Did you clean and lubricate the pistol before firing it?

The grease HK uses (in volume) is not really a lubricant, but rather a preservative for packaging. I would clean all the packaging grease from the pistol and properly lubricate it with a product of your choosing before proceeding. This a cheap and easy thing to do, and it certainly doesn't hurt. :)
 

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I took my new P30 9 LEM out on Thursday with my girl. She had a few stovepipes with it. It was absolutely due to her limp wristing it. It stopped when she corrected her grip. I took it out today and put another 200 rounds through it with no problems.
 

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Could someone explain to me specifically what part of the design allows limp wrist failures to occur.

Of the guns ive owned, some have been prone to limp wrist failures and some havent. With my old HK45 and my USP40 I tried tirelessly to induce limp wrist failures and it wouldnt happen. And I tried it when they were fresh out of the box, with stiff springs, and cheap walmart target ammo. Heck I even let my girlfriend shoot them (she has a horrible grip), and they still cycled.

But with my Glock and my P2K, i can always get them to FTE if I try hard enough. I can't understand why some polymer-framed guns are susceptible and some aren't. The only thing I can think of is that the Hk45 and USP40 are full-sized guns vs. my Glock and P2K. Could that be it?
I don't know if this is exactly right... But I watched one happen Thursday while my woman was shooting. When she took the shot limp wristed I watched the empty shell start to eject but it looked like the gun caught up(moving upward due to the recoil and limp wristing) to the ejecting shell and the slide literally "caught" the ejecting shell. If that makes sense.

I actually saw it perfectly... Almost looked like slow motion... it was the first time I had ever actually seen a stovepipe happen from that anle and it explained a lot to me.

I too have tried to cause a limp wrist induced malfunction... Even with the P30 and can't.
 

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Could someone explain to me specifically what part of the design allows limp wrist failures to occur.

Of the guns ive owned, some have been prone to limp wrist failures and some havent. With my old HK45 and my USP40 I tried tirelessly to induce limp wrist failures and it wouldnt happen. And I tried it when they were fresh out of the box, with stiff springs, and cheap walmart target ammo. Heck I even let my girlfriend shoot them (she has a horrible grip), and they still cycled.

But with my Glock and my P2K, i can always get them to FTE if I try hard enough. I can't understand why some polymer-framed guns are susceptible and some aren't. The only thing I can think of is that the Hk45 and USP40 are full-sized guns vs. my Glock and P2K. Could that be it?
It's not just the polymer framed gun (lighter frames in general are easier to limp wrist) that makes it more prone to the limp wrist malfunctions. The issue is that the slide is moving back from the pressure of the ejecting case, while the frame is not being held tightly enough to create a stiff foundation to work against, rather the entire pistol is moving back and the case cannot hit the ejector hard enough or the closing slide catches the case after the ejector hits the case. The slide then looses momentum and the recoil spring overcomes it and tries to close the breech. This is why when the recoil spring is stiff it is even easier to limp wrist.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Did you clean and lubricate the pistol before firing it?
Oh yea, I cleaned and lubed it. The stuff the factory uses looked like axle grease. But thanks and another good point!

I am going with the limp wristing as the problem here. And I think a little baby facing too!!! Now if someone could just post that the P30 is too big for my wife and she needs a USPc that would be great. Oh, but I keep the other P30. DUH!
 

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A reliable pistol should function and cycle no matter how strong or weak you hold it. "Limp wristing" is an excuse for a poorly designed or functioning pistol. Wear-in will usually improve the functionality, but you should be able to hold a reliable pistol with two fingers in any position, to include upside-down and have it function. This is one of my criteria and only pistols that pass these tests are retained.

-- Chuck
 

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A reliable pistol should function and cycle no matter how strong or weak you hold it. "Limp wristing" is an excuse for a poorly designed or functioning pistol. Wear-in will usually improve the functionality, but you should be able to hold a reliable pistol with two fingers in any position, to include upside-down and have it function. This is one of my criteria and only pistols that pass these tests are retained.

-- Chuck
I would say that the physics of the matter would disagree. The pistol has to have something to recoil against in order to cycle--there is no getting around it. There is a compromise that exist between the strength of the recoil spring, the weight of the slide, the weight of the frame and the strength of the load. There are a lot of forces at work in different directions, and the main variable, especially on a new pistol is the resistance the shooter provides.
 

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HK P30 has "out of the box" very stiff recoil spring. It needs some period of use to reach it's normal strength. Because this spring is designed to use 9x19mm NATO ammo (equivalent of +P ammo), when new this spring is too strong for "weak" 115gr range ammo. Usually it leads to FTE or stovepipe type of stoppages. Adding loose grip to that can promote problem. For first 150-200 rounds full power 124gr ammo is recommended. After this even weaker ammo should work, even with grip problems.
 

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I would say that the physics of the matter would disagree. The pistol has to have something to recoil against in order to cycle--there is no getting around it. There is a compromise that exist between the strength of the recoil spring, the weight of the slide, the weight of the frame and the strength of the load. There are a lot of forces at work in different directions, and the main variable, especially on a new pistol is the resistance the shooter provides.
This guy knows what he's talking about. I've read all his posts concerning the OP's original post and he's spot on.
There's no such thing as a firearm that's 100% reliable under the infinate list of conditions and circumstances that it may have to operate. I'm guessing the guy who said his gun has to operate will being limply held by two fingers probably don't own very many self loading handguns.
 
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