Hi yall, I purchased a C308 about a year ago and began to wonder while in a state of annoyance, "...Why not see about putting a "push pin" lower housing on this thing"...(dun-Dun DUN!!)...well, I have read many a thread and forum on the subject of removing the semi shelf and opening up the pin holes with mixed reviews on this touchy subject that body slams it into the proverbial "grey area" of legality...So, I managed to pick the brains of two ATF agents that came into the gunshop (to which I am employed) to run a trace on a handgun, and (after showing them my personal C308, removing the lower and pointing out and explaining exactly what i desire to do in detail), both agreed that they saw no illegal action in doing such, as long as I kept the semi-auto trigger pack installed, and that the only thing they could think of is that I would have to prove, if confronted with any doubt by law enforcement, that I do not have a full auto trigger pack installed (unless I have a registered sear and the appropriate papers proving legal ownership). I know some will think "Jack, you just answered your own question...", true, but when a new agent or agents come into the area, they can carry ideas completely opposite of their predecessors. Now, with that long background stated, I am here to ask and get opinions on this. And by opinions, I mean what have yall have heard on the subject? Understanding, that I am not seeking legal advice in any way, shape or form on these forums. Basically just wondering if any of yall on here have done this or looked into this and actually received a response from the ATF "technologies division" on this subject? Also, Just as a crazy idea, Do yall think that it would work if the shelf remained on, but had the sides ground down to accept the pinned lower? Sorry for writing a short novel on this, just wanted to make sure I had all bases covered to try and answer any future question regarding this one. Many thanks in advance-Jack the Jackass.
C308 Shelf Question (warning: lenghty explination of the question)
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They do not know the rules. Those guys deal with tracing guns, & making sure the gun store's paperwork is properly filled out. At a Shot show where the ATF has a huge presence, I once asked a similar question. The few agents I spoke to saw no problem, but they said "lets ask the guy from the technical department, as that was his specialty". He told me it was totally illegal, & knew every rule about those things. The guys who come into the stores are there to check up on paperwork, & that's all they know. GARY
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Send your question to the technical branch of ATF and you'll have your answer in writing, and you will be able to show it to law enforcement on demand.
It's a lot safer than saying 'Yeah but a couple ATF agents and some guys on a gun forum said they didn't see a problem with it'.
It's a lot safer than saying 'Yeah but a couple ATF agents and some guys on a gun forum said they didn't see a problem with it'.
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Those IOI's are COMPLETELY wrong. Like other said. Submit a letter (which we all know will tell you no way in heck can you do that).
ETA: Doing this would be the same as milling and drilling an AR15 lower to accept an Auto Sear and not putting the fun parts in and saying "but it only has semi parts in it" you still would have just manufactured a post sample MG.
ETA: Doing this would be the same as milling and drilling an AR15 lower to accept an Auto Sear and not putting the fun parts in and saying "but it only has semi parts in it" you still would have just manufactured a post sample MG.
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+1. To my knowledge there are two semi auto configurations for the roller locked platform (family of firearms). There is the configuration you have which the US manufacturers seem to use. In that configuration there is a wraparound shelf and no hole all the way through the receiver where the paddle mag release would be. Then there is the Southern Asian configuration. This configuration has a narrow shelf that does not allow a full auto trigger group to go into the grip housing. The receiver does have a hole through in the location that a front push pin/paddle mag release lever would be. It also has a full auto carrier block welded into the back of the receiver and the carrier has been modified so there is no area to trip the release lever in a full auto pack.
Ten years ago, I was once told by a NFA Branch employee that I could build a new machinegun. I just needed to submit a Form 1. Wish I had a recording of that conversation. There was a thread here about converting a Southern Asian gun so it could run a sear. There was a letter posted. Of course a letter is only good for the person it is addressed to. I would think you could write a letter to the Technology Branch about the Southern Asian configuration and convert your C308. If you do, I have a FMP bolt carrier that was modified to be semi auto that I'll trade for your full auto carrier. Unless you can do the work yourself, that is a lot of custom work to put into your rifle that won't help the retail value of your rifle. Good luck with your conversion project.
Scott
Many thanks to yall. I was afraid that it would be illegal. SCOTTINTHEGROVE, I have heard of those, with the semi shelf that would still accept the pinned lower and were legally imported into the country. I may just end up writing the ATF technologies division and see if I can get approval (in writing) to remove the side "ears" from the shelf and open the holes back up. Since it would still have the portion of the semi-shelf still protruding into the lower, i may have a better chance at that. However, there is a guy here locally that is an HK fanatic (he buys HK´s and accessories and puts them in a case to collect dust) with a dozen or so registered "fun-time" sears. if nothing else I could see about purchasing one and going that route. Or maybe I could just look into registering the receiver itself as a Class III item, if its possible.
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To be clear, the full auto carrier block must be welded into the back of the receiver before modifying the shelf. I don't know what the "HK fanatic" would charge you, but a registered full auto sear has a market value in the low $30,000 range. Depending on the model, a double push pin registered receiver machinegun will have a market value in the upper $20,000 range.
Scott
Scott
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Unless you are a licensed manufacture it is not possible for you to make a FA weapon.
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