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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Perhaps this should be in the "cinema" section but I guess it's a handgun shootng question and not a film question. During the film (Collateral), we see Tom Cruise repeatedly double and tripple tap people with lightning speed. Now using a USP .45 F with factory ammo, can any of you guys accurately shoot this fast? If so, up to what distance. I've become pretty proficient with my usp .45 and I cant shoot that quickly past 5 feet. At 15 yards, the second shot is a foot above the first - and thats if I'm lucky. The gun just kicks enough that it makes it damn near impossible. What about you guys? Pointers?
 

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I have looked closely at the clip you mention. First he knock away the bg's gun with his left hand while he draws from concealed carry on the right hip. Then he double taps the first bg from the hip then retargets to the second bg and double taps him, then again retargets to a head for the final shot. I haven’t timed it but looks like 5 shots from holster in under 3 seconds. It looks to me that the first bg is at arms length, about 3 feet, and the second is at about 8 feet.
I have tried it with my USP45f and my level 3 duty rig (therefore a slower draw) I can't do it in under 3. I can hit the "A zone" on all 5 shots, at similar distances, including the head shot, in under 5. I also tried the same setup, but with the second bg on the left, and was just over 5 going left. That was not my time on my first try and in the adrenalin of a real situation, I doubt that I could match that.
also, try doing a similar set from seated in a car with your seat belt on, out the driver's window. (AT THE RANGE IN A RANGE BAY) Now that is a tough draw! Be sure you don't shoot yourself in the knee! or wack the steering wheel. Best time, over 9 seconds with C zone hits, over 11 with all in the A zones.
reality training
 

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Double taps are not difficult to do. I have a friend who can shoot a double tap as fast as one can pull the trigger and the two shots will land MM's apart in the center, at 20 feet. I can do it just a bit slower.

If you have the DVD, watch the special features disk. He had training by a former SAS operator. I think that would help.
 

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I am guessing that........
Tom Cruise + USP .45 = Collateral

Never seen it. Also, don't see many movies any more with all the impossible shots that contribute to the anti-gun beliefs. Don't watch CSI either.
 

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Double taps are not difficult to do. I have a friend who can shoot a double tap as fast as one can pull the trigger and the two shots will land MM's apart in the center, at 20 feet. I can do it just a bit slower.

If you have the DVD, watch the special features disk. He had training by a former SAS operator. I think that would help.
Well that and the fact that he's firing blanks.
 

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Well that and the fact that he's firing blanks.
I think thats a big part of it as well.

I have seen a few guys shooting 45's (1911's) just as fast if not faster than Tom Cruise in a simulated defensive scenario, but they also go through 2000+ rounds a week and shoot almost every night, and then shoot another 1000 rounds on the weekends. I guess if you shot that much you could do it too.
 
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you need ALOT OF PRACTICE to pull that off. many good exhibition shooters can shoot faster, but they use their own reloads for maximum efficiency and speed. and as already mentioned above, they go through many thousand rounds. alot of it has to do with muscle memory and getting the barrel back down before the next shot.
 

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It's not that difficult to do that. It can easily be done in under 3 seconds for a target at 7 yards for most IPSC/IDPA shooters. For me, reaction time + draw from concealment to first shot time should be around 1.25-1.30 seconds, .20-.25 second shot to center mass, .35 transition to second target, .20-.25 second shot, then .35 for head shot. So that's about 2.50 seconds without really pushing the pace much. Probably can drop it down another .25 seconds if I really practice it.

The difference between shooting full power ammo vs. blanks is not that much different. You might be able to go a few hundredths of a second faster.
 

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Blanks are quite a bit different, he also doesn't exactly have to aim while shooting them becuase of the squibs.

I'm willing to bet my entire gun collection that tom cruise couldn't do that with a USP .45 loaded with real ammo in the next 10 years.
 

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I liked the movie, but I do appreciate the point that SFGuard made about the promotion of anti-gun beliefs. I can see someone, a leftist government official or ignorant parent, looking at a scene like this and believing that all persons with a CCW license are just looking for an excuse to pull their gun out and try to be Tom Cruise. Thankfully there exists venues where us regular-Joes can go and try some of these situations on paper or steel targets. I look at the use of shooting ranges as analogous to drag strips that open on the weekend so that people with the need to speed can do it on the track instead of on the street. Just my .02
 

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they had a great CQC advisor for that scene... IMO the double tap at that range isn't the hard part... it's the single motion deflection + quick draw from concealed that requires the practice...

the third tap just makes them stay down
:/
 

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Blanks are quite a bit different, he also doesn't exactly have to aim while shooting them becuase of the squibs.

I'm willing to bet my entire gun collection that tom cruise couldn't do that with a USP .45 loaded with real ammo in the next 10 years.
when you are shooting that close a range, you don't aim, you point and shoot. MAYBE he aimed the head shot.
and that is an hkusp45 and I would bet a round of diet coke that he could do that well on paper targets at the same range. He clearly had training and practice. That's all it takes. It's not an impossible shot.
Granted there is a lot of Hollywood that is ridiculous, but I think this is possible. come on out to an IPSA match some time, there are some very capable shooters.
+1 advocate, the self defense move and draw is the tricky part. Get that wrong and you're dead.
 

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I can do good hammers with a 1911. Usually within an inch at 7 yds, about 2" at 15

With my USP my hammers suck
 
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