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Discussion Starter #1
Basically what I am asking is that if you were to have to go to war, be in an environment like Iraq (sandy, hot, windy), or Vietnam (muggy, wet/tropical, humid, muddy) would you trust your life with a P2000? I have a G19 for a carry pistol and I absolutely love this gun. It's bullet proof and I would/will trust it always! Unfortunately for my G19 I had the pleasure of shooting a P2000 V3 the other day at the range with some ball ammo "American eagle" and it was an absolute pleasure to shoot. It was literally unlike any pistol I have ever shot! The grips were "perfect", and my groups were better. It is definitely (in my hands) a more accurate gun. It has softer recoil, my follow ups grouped better, and it just felt better in my hand. I am seriously considering getting one for carry. After all why not if you shoot it better right? This is my dilemma. I won't get rid of my G19, but I know I shoot the P2000 better. I have already made up my mind but I need support from people who know more than myself. Help me out please. Also with training would one be able to land more on target with a Glock. I've read up on their low bore axis and this is interesting. I know that supposedly Glock's get back o track better than USP's (in capable hands), how about the construction/dynamics of the P2000???
 

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All HKs have their lineage based in combat handguns. I would wager to say that anything a Glock can take a HK can take even better. There are always anecdotal stories saying brand X is better than brand Y, but on the whole IMO you cannot find a better out of the box, combat ready pistol than the HK, any of them. Is that saying there are any flies on the Glock? No way. Glocks are excellent pistols but at least for me they will never equal the HK, not in fit, function*, or accuracy**. It all boils down to fit, and no gun fits me better than the HK, specifically the USPC .45.
Also IMO the only reason you do not see more police departments and combat units using the HK over the Glock or other brands is bottom line costs that determine so many departments/agencies purchasing agreements.
If more decisions were based on field tests to destruction rather than bottom line expenses I believe you would see a whole lot more police officers and combat units carrying the HKs.

*function: I do not like Glocks not having repeat strike capability.
**accuracy: relates to fit. I firmly believe you shoot better with a gun that fits you, and Glocks do not fit me worth a hoot, none of them and I have tried them all. Most HK's do not fit me either, and while some are too large, some are too small, the USPC and P2K are just right.
 

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I would prefer to carry a USP into combat, but I wouldnt hesitate to use the P2000 either. I havent found anyone who was able to break a USP or P2000 yet, granted their are less of them in use than the Glock.

For me it would come down to what everyone else was using and the availability of spare parts, because lets face it stuff happens when you least expect it. I certainly wouldnt trust a Glock to function better under extreme circumstances than a USP or a P2000 for that matter if that is what you are asking.
 

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Is this the guy who has the blog "watch me break my P2000"?
yea, as far as I know he gave up.

Another thing to think about is that many of these Glock torture tests and reviews of torture tests are quite exaggerated. People seem to find such stupid ways to torture test Glocks. One of my favorite quotes from another board was someone poking fun at these fake torture test results:

Question:

What would happen to a pistol like the Glock if it was submerged in a container of drano (Drain Cleaner)?
Answer:

Since Drano is safe for plastic and metal pipes, I think it would only dissolve the hair clog in the barrel.

However, in just a few minutes, a Glock fanboy will come by and post a link to a test where a Glock was put in a blender filled with Drano, sulfuric acid, Coca-Cola, piranha, and 2 pounds of industrial diamonds. A CAT D8 bulldozer was then dropped on it from 1000 feet. The owner picked up the Glock, chambered a 155mm HE round, hit a post-it note at 917 miles, and then proceeded to run 726,761 rounds of Wolf ammo coated with Gorilla Glue with no failures.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
yea, as far as I know he gave up.

Another thing to think about is that many of these Glock torture tests and reviews of torture tests are quite exaggerated. People seem to find such stupid ways to torture test Glocks. One of my favorite quotes from another board was someone poking fun at these fake torture test results:
LMAO...
 

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I don't have a whole lot of trust in the USP is a combat weapon. I base that on the fact that I had a USP9 where the slide failed because it was improperly (or not at all) heat treated. The failure was not catastrophic, the USP just slowly seized up. It was an early model, but it was a serious quality control failure that probably effects at least 1000+ guns. The guns with the bad heat treat should have been recalled, HK should know which guns were effected, but they did not recall them. The other issue I have with the USP series is quick to weaken magazine springs.

So even though I don't and have never owned a Glock, in general, I would pick Glock over a USP and its cousins.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't have a whole lot of trust in the USP is a combat weapon. I base that on the fact that I had a USP9 where the slide failed because it was improperly (or not at all) heat treated. The failure was not catastrophic, the USP just slowly seized up. It was an early model, but it was a serious quality control failure that probably effects at least 1000+ guns. The guns with the bad heat treat should have been recalled, HK should know which guns were effected, but they did not recall them. The other issue I have with the USP series is quick to weaken magazine springs.

So even though I don't and have never owned a Glock, in general, I would pick Glock over a USP and its cousins.
WOW really. That sucks. Sorry for you misfortune.
 

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I don't have a whole lot of trust in the USP is a combat weapon. I base that on the fact that I had a USP9 where the slide failed because it was improperly (or not at all) heat treated. The failure was not catastrophic, the USP just slowly seized up. It was an early model, but it was a serious quality control failure that probably effects at least 1000+ guns. The guns with the bad heat treat should have been recalled, HK should know which guns were effected, but they did not recall them. The other issue I have with the USP series is quick to weaken magazine springs.

So even though I don't and have never owned a Glock, in general, I would pick Glock over a USP and its cousins.
I have never heard of any slide problem with HK handguns but I have heard about alot of mag spring problems. I think both the Glock & HK are side by side as far as reliabilty goes but I know the Glock has fewer moveing parts to break than the HK pistols do so I think the Glock might have the edge in some enviorments. The Glock also has a better & harder finish than the HK plus the slide rails are much beefier which I do not know if that even matters or not. The downside to the Glock is that the grip angle & trigger sucks in my opinion. Too bad they do not make a Glock with a HK style grip & trigger.
 

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The odds of you being in Vietnam, Iraq, or any other hostile environment carrying a pistol are nil as a civilian. As an urban carry piece, or a range day weapon HKs are as good as any other pistol on the market. If the P2000 fits wear it. From what you've said you shoot it well and it feels right. I have enjoyed and trusted my HKs for quite some time. I own other brands as well, but never a Glock. Wouldn't have one, they just don't work for me in fit, or function.
 

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As someone stated previously they are both combat handguns so either would take a beating. However, your never going to abuse your carry gun to that extent so what does it matter? Sure you could drop it on the ground or in the water, but in the actual course of usage, even extreme use, the pistol is never going to come across a vat of Draino (unless your doing it on purpose) so what does it matter?

I have a G19 and my uncle has a P2000 LEM. I shoot my Glock better than I shoot the P2000. So for me I will stick with the Glock. My point is go with what is most comfortable and accurate for you.
 

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I've had to send two HK's back to the factory because they broke. I've never had to sent a Glock back to the factory.
what did your break, and what models? Unless your talking about that old firing pin issue, you may have the worst luck of any HK owner I have heard about :eek:
 

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what did your break, and what models? Unless your talking about that old firing pin issue, you may have the worst luck of any HK owner I have heard about
I think I have been very unlucky. I bought a NIB P2000SK and shot it once and field stripped it when I got home and noticed a strange groove on the barrel that looked like a crack. I sent it to HK and they said it was an out of spec barrel. They replaced it at no charge. I had a second P2000SK for about a year and had about shot around 1000 rounds trought it when the trigger broke. It was LEM in .40 cal. When I pulled the trigger the hammer would not move until the trigger was pulled all of the way back. It would skip into position right at the breaking point. It was a spring problem so I was told. The P2000 I had was flawless. All three were my carry guns. I really liked them but after all of the problems I had and lack of parts or local armorers I sold them. I had Glocks for about eight years before I made the jump to HK. I have since returned to the Glock format without any regrets. I got tired of calling HK with problems and having to send guns in for repair. Another thing that drove me crazy was every time I called for a part they never had it in stock and I was always told it would take ninety days to get here. I do not think HK has adequate support for their products. It's not HK USA's fault they work with what they have. I think Glock treats their civilian customers ten times better than HK. It was not an easy decision but the long run the right one for me.
 

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I think I have been very unlucky. I bought a NIB P2000SK and shot it once and field stripped it when I got home and noticed a strange groove on the barrel that looked like a crack. I sent it to HK and they said it was an out of spec barrel. They replaced it at no charge. I had a second P2000SK for about a year and had about shot around 1000 rounds trought it when the trigger broke. It was LEM in .40 cal. When I pulled the trigger the hammer would not move until the trigger was pulled all of the way back. It would skip into position right at the breaking point. It was a spring problem so I was told. The P2000 I had was flawless. All three were my carry guns. I really liked them but after all of the problems I had and lack of parts or local armorers I sold them. I had Glocks for about eight years before I made the jump to HK. I have since returned to the Glock format without any regrets. I got tired of calling HK with problems and having to send guns in for repair. Another thing that drove me crazy was every time I called for a part they never had it in stock and I was always told it would take ninety days to get here. I do not think HK has adequate support for their products. It's not HK USA's fault they work with what they have. I think Glock treats their civilian customers ten times better than HK. It was not an easy decision but the long run the right one for me.
I think I remember a number of your posts. I agree the supply of parts sucks for the most part. If the same thing happened to me I would have switched to another company as well. I am thinking about buying spare parts for the USP/USPc I have before I need them just for that reason.
 

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I guess I've just been really lucky. I've never had to send any gun back in for repair, ever. And not because I just fixed them myself - I've simply never had one break. Not any of my HKs, not even my super-cheap 18 year old Ruger P85 that I've shot over 15,000 rounds through. But I do take decent care of all of them, too. Well, except for shooting nearly 100% gun-show reloads.
 

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I have only had failures with Taurus and SA, its not about breakage for me as I havent worked any of my HKs, or Glocks to the point of catastrophic failure, I think failure to feed or eject are more real world issues for civilian/LEO and military than all out failure..that is where HK has pulled above any other in my personal experience.
 

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I've had a bunch of HK's.

USP45
USP45 tac
USPc 9m
USPc 45
USPc 40
P2000
P7m8

Thousands of rounds and never one malfunction in any gun
 

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I have never had any problems either and would put my HKs up against any Glock.
 
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