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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I am in the process of forming my LLC in order to own SBR's and silencer's. Owning and shooting the 416 with the 10 inch barrel is high on my list. But i am not sure how to go about buying one or if its even possible. Can a civilian own the HK416? Any information is greatly appreciated.
 

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Yes, if you are a SOT holder and possess a demo letter for a 416.
 

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Forget the SOT route. The German govt will no longer allow HK to deliver dealer samples after the current 416's that are in bond are gone. All NFA items now require an EUC and will only ship directly to the department/agency.
 

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Forget the SOT route. The German govt will no longer allow HK to deliver dealer samples after the current 416's that are in bond are gone. All NFA items now require an EUC and will only ship directly to the department/agency.
When did this happen? So I'm guessing it is nearly impossible for a dealer to split up and sell the parts, and donate the lower to the LE agency now?
 

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Forget the SOT route. The German govt will no longer allow HK to deliver dealer samples after the current 416's that are in bond are gone. All NFA items now require an EUC and will only ship directly to the department/agency.
And once again HK falls back on the Eric Cartman business model....sigh.
 

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When did this happen? So I'm guessing it is nearly impossible for a dealer to split up and sell the parts, and donate the lower to the LE agency now?
Correct, the dealer is out of the equation at this point. The firearm will ship directly to the department requesting the sample. Once the demonstations period is over, I do not know what restrictions are imposed on the department as far as dispositioning the parts.

And once again HK falls back on the Eric Cartman business model....sigh.
It is not HK's fault. It is the German govenment that has imposed this requirement for exported Mil/LE firearms.
 

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It is not HK's fault. It is the German govenment that has imposed this requirement for exported Mil/LE firearms.
Don't mean to be contrary, but if HK can have the MR556 mostly built here in the states and maintain key components being made "in the rough" in Germany (such as barrels), then they could do the same for the 416 which would allow them to reach a broader market here in the states, stop artificially driving up prices, and provide that all important US based manufacturing capability when it comes to DoD contracts.

Sure the German govt. can be a bunch of douches when it comes to export laws, but there are ways around them that wouldn't hurt the German govt.s feelings(thus prodding them into making even worse export rules) and allow HK to open their markets elsewhere. They simply choose not to.
 

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Don't mean to be contrary, but if HK can have the MR556 mostly built here in the states and maintain key components being made "in the rough" in Germany (such as barrels), then they could do the same for the 416 which would allow them to reach a broader market here in the states, stop artificially driving up prices, and provide that all important US based manufacturing capability when it comes to DoD contracts.

Sure the German govt. can be a bunch of douches when it comes to export laws, but there are ways around them that wouldn't hurt the German govt.s feelings(thus prodding them into making even worse export rules) and allow HK to open their markets elsewhere. They simply choose not to.
Be contrary, it's good for the spirit of discussion.

I can only specualate on why HK does not make the 416/417 here but if I had to guess, I would bet it has to do with simple economics of supporting their manufacture in two different plants. They build the MR-series here because they have to in order for it to be available here. The 416/417 does not have to be built here. If it were, it would only be able to support domestic sales as we would not be able to export them for sales abroad. I would bet it fair to say that if the adoptation of the 416/417 becomes a trend here in the U.S., that they may very well move production here. Even with the M27, the numbers probably do not deem it necessary. While it has never been said, I speculate that if the U.S. had widely adopted the G36 and/or the UMP, production would possibly have been moved here and we would have civi-versions in our hands. And I'm sure that there are other factors that many of us will never know.

From the stand-point of dealer samples, I can not think of any valid reason why HK should find a work-around to German law so that dealers can get a post-sample. Quite frankly, I would not be surprised if the dealers themselves caused this... obtaining post-samples then parting them out on the retail market. The German govt highly frowns upon military goods in civillian hands and would not be suprised if this is a direct result of it.

Just my 2-cents.
 

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If HK has no intention of starting to make the 416/417 here, it makes their investment in tooling for the MR versions seem a bit surprising to me. I wouldn't think there is that much civilian-only demand in the US, especially at the prices HK is asking as compared to cheaper competing products. Not looking to get into another discussion of whether the HK is better than brand X, but the reality is that a large number of people just won't pay $2500 - $3000 for a .223 AR or $3500 - $4000 for a .308 AR. That's simply out of their price range, and for a lot of people and what they do with their guns, the features on the HK (and the name) really aren't worth the extra price. They either don't need the features or feel, rightly or wrongly, that other guns provide something similar at a much lower price. I think the majority of the buyers of the MRs are going to be hard-core HK fans who buy everything HK and have the money to pay the prices they are asking. HKs are always going to be premium guns with premium pricing, and I wonder if they can really make enough on civilian sales to justify the cost to them. Just my 2 cents as a HK fan (maybe more so than some , but not even close to others)

From the stand-point of dealer samples, I can not think of any valid reason why HK should find a work-around to German law so that dealers can get a post-sample. Quite frankly, I would not be surprised if the dealers themselves caused this... obtaining post-samples then parting them out on the retail market. The German govt highly frowns upon military goods in civillian hands and would not be suprised if this is a direct result of it.
QFT!
 

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Keep going... I'm enjoying this.
 

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The tool-up costs for the N.H. plant were probably less that we think. Remember, it is a co-located facility with Wilcox, which may (or may not) be another reason that the 416/417 is not built here.

You have to remember that many patrol carbines can only be semi-auto. The MR-series has an LE audience as well. For all we know, the MR series may have initally been LE guns that just happens to be available for civillian sales.

Perhaps G3Kurz will chime in and offer his insights.
 

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So the German govt. has nothing better to do then keep tabs on and be angry about what legally licensed US dealers are doing with legally purchased items?

That goes beyond being a douche move if that is in fact what they are doing. Especially considering the fact that nearly all of the differences between the 416 and MR are cosmetic and don't really have an impact on how the system actually works. Sorta like all the dumbassed banned features of the 94 AWB.

Sigh.......
 

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So the German govt. has nothing better to do then keep tabs on and be angry about what legally licensed US dealers are doing with legally purchased items?

That goes beyond being a douche move if that is in fact what they are doing. Especially considering the fact that nearly all of the differences between the 416 and MR are cosmetic and don't really have an impact on how the system actually works. Sorta like all the dumbassed banned features of the 94 AWB.

Sigh.......
Could not agree with you more! If you talk to the folks at HK-USA, they'd love to see more products to the civil market. But fact is, much of what we don't see is because of difficulties with the German govt, not HK-Germany.
 

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So 416 will soon be not much different than obtaining a Glock 18. FFLs will have to get them from other dealers or LEO Agencies.
 

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Good luck getting one. There won't be any more coming in to the US. My understanding is what is already out there and in bond warehouses is it. NIB kits are getting harder to find by the day it feels like. Its also artificially driving up the prices. Believe me I know because I just paid a ridiculous amount for an AH date coded NIB kit.
 

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We are also to be held accountable for the new requirements which have in turn cut the supply. We always talk about 922r and all other things ATF related and the popular response is, "don't poke the sleeping bear". Guess what, all the photos and discussions of 416 uppers in civi hands, dealers parting out samples and selling uppers as excess inventory did just that... poked and finally woke the sleeping German bear.

We can cry and gripe about it all we want. We partially did it to ourselves.
 

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We are also to be held accountable for the new requirements which have in turn cut the supply. We always talk about 922r and all other things ATF related and the popular response is, "don't poke the sleeping bear". Guess what, all the photos and discussions of 416 uppers in civi hands, dealers parting out samples and selling uppers as excess inventory did just that... poked and finally woke the sleeping German bear.

We can cry and gripe about it all we want. We partially did it to ourselves.
I couldn't agree more. If anybody reading this thread is interested act now. The kits I've seen on ad boards aren't lasting long at all...even with higher prices.
 
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