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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have always wanted an MP5. Living in California has made that dream impossible though. I am moving to Florida soon, and I was wondering if it would be possible for a civilian with proper training and a clean record to own one of these there. What would it take? Is it even possible? Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Living in FL, all it'll take is $$$$$.
Aside from buying the gun what else do I have to do? Doesn't a fully automatic weapon require special permits that you don't need with a semi auto? I really have no idea since it's not even a possibility here. If I could get my hands on an UMP9 or MP5 with a suppressor I'd gladly pay five grand+.
 

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Wow that much? I'm not really in the position to spend $15k on it right now. Hopefully I will be soon though. I had no idea they cost that much. Do you have a link to an online vendor? I tried to research it a little bit before I posted, but was unable to find one.
 

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Wow that much? I'm not really in the position to spend $15k on it right now. Hopefully I will be soon though. I had no idea they cost that much. Do you have a link to an online vendor? I tried to research it a little bit before I posted, but was unable to find one.
Sturmgewehr.com and Subguns.com. Look in the NFA boards. And like I said in a previous post, plan on more like $17,000, then there are possibly two $200 taxes to pay.

And unless "soon enough" is something like the next 6 months, better save up some extra. They've been steadily rising for years now. Example: The first time I ever saw a sear in person was I think around 1996 or so, they were what, $1,000? The next one I saw was $4,000 in about 2000. I thought that was insane. When did I get mine? In 2004 I think, for $10,000. The last few I've seen were around $14,000.

See the trend?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Sturmgewehr.com and Subguns.com. Look in the NFA boards. And like I said in a previous post, plan on more like $17,000, then there are possibly two $200 taxes to pay.

And unless "soon enough" is something like the next 6 months, better save up some extra. They've been steadily rising for years now. Example: The first time I ever saw a sear in person was I think around 1996 or so, they were what, $1,000? The next one I saw was $4,000 in about 2000. I thought that was insane. When did I get mine? In 2004 I think, for $10,000. The last few I've seen were around $14,000.

See the trend?

Yeah see... I thought $4000 was how much they went for. How could the price possibly be increasing at such a high rate? Is there a limited supply of them? Seems like a good investment if so.
 

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MP5 or other F/A guns

I think something has been left out of this thread. Our original poster needs to be advised he can only buy "transferable" F/A guns. He may have seen an advert for a normal MP5 or UMP, available to LEO and Military (or SOT's), for a few thousand dollars and thought that is what they cost. Civilians can only purchase F/A firearms which were legally registered before May 19th, 1986. This means there is a limited number of available guns (and sears) on the market and that number will never go up. Supply and Demand has driven the market for these rare items and that is part of the reason prices have risen so much in the years since. *If you are thinking about owning an F/A weapon, then it will probably cost you less money if you buy it soon. Wait awhile and it will probably cost you more.

BTW: If the $$$ scares you, think about something half the price and still desirable such as a Vector brand Uzi. For $7-8K you can pick up a nice Uzi with factory service/warranty, registered in three calibers (.22LR, 9mm, .45ACP) and easy to maintain and shoot.

Lastly: Read the wonderful sections all about H&K conversion weapons on this site. You will learn a great deal about the history, available conversion types and differences.
 

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Good points Signutz! I am in the process of purchasing my first SMG - an HK MP5K with suppressor and I live in Florida. I would agree that $18K+ is what you most likely will pay today. Check out this link that lists all the recorded sales by SMG category: http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/. I have seen several sell in the low $20K's in Florida.

I am purchasing mine from Jon Carter. He is a Class 3 firearms dealer and I can't say enough good things about Jon for all the time he has taken with me to understand the complexity of the purchase. Here is his email:

[email protected]

Lastly, check on the county where you will be living in FL to see if the local sheriff's policy is to "sign off" on your purchase. I live in Hillsborough County and our sheriff will not! That only leaves two options: create a corporation to transfer the weapon to or to create a Revocable Trust. Even though I have a corporation I chose the Trust option.

I suggest you read this article by Bob Howell (I used him for the Trust):

http://www.2aforum.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=23689&Main=1483.

Hope this helps.
 

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Yeah see... I thought $4000 was how much they went for. How could the price possibly be increasing at such a high rate? Is there a limited supply of them? Seems like a good investment if so.
You may have seen a semi-auto MP5. Meaning it has the 3-lug short barrel, flapper mag release, and has bee restamped. That will run $4,000-$5,000. But that won't include a registered sear, meaning it is only semi-auto.
 

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Yeah see... I thought $4000 was how much they went for. How could the price possibly be increasing at such a high rate? Is there a limited supply of them? Seems like a good investment if so.
Not just limited - fixed! There are something on the order of I think 7,000 registered HK's in various configurations in the entire country. Any time you have limited supply, as you know, price increases. And yes, they do make really good investments.
 

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Look on autoweapons.com, Vahan has a huge inventory, lots of never fired stuff and he gets sears from time to time. Unfortunately, he doesn't post the prices of the ones that change quickly. I have made several purchases from him. To add to what Dave has said, There are about 250,000 fully transferable machine guns in the U.S. There will NEVER be any more. Almost half of them are in the possession of police departments or government agencies. So that leaves about 125,000 fully transferable, registered machine guns in civilian hands. There are usually less than 1000 machine guns for sale at any one time in the whole country. It's simple supply and demand. On top of all of that, the MP5 is the most sought after one which drives the price up but also helps hold the value. Some day I will sell part of my collection to put my daughter through college. Maybe I'll make her get a job instead.
 

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To add to what Dave has said, There are about 250,00 fully transferable machine guns in the U.S. There will NEVER be any more. Almost half of them are in the possession of police departments or government agencies. So that leaves about 125,000 fully transferable, registered machine guns in civilian hands. There are usually less than 1000 machine guns for sale at any one time in the whole country.
You have a comma out of place there, and either one missing or one extra digit.

Is it 25,000 total transferable, half of which is 12,500, or was that supposed to be 250,000 transferables, with the 125,000 number being correct?

I'm guessing the 25,000 and 12,500 are the right numbers, no?
 

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I am just curious about one thing.

No civilian can own a true MP5 because the real deal is pinned to the lower, isnt that correct?

So the only "real" MP5's are in the hands of SOT's and LEO's because they are built to the original German blueprints. The ones that cost civi's 14000 dollars have fleming sears or something that allows full auto fire.

Am I right about the above post because I have always been pretty confused about this...
 

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I am just curious about one thing.

No civilian can own a true MP5 because the real deal is pinned to the lower, isnt that correct?

So the only "real" MP5's are in the hands of SOT's and LEO's because they are built to the original German blueprints. The ones that cost civi's 14000 dollars have fleming sears or something that allows full auto fire.

Am I right about the above post because I have always been pretty confused about this...
The Gun Control Act of 1968 banned the sale of foreign machine guns to civilians, the the only real transferable factory MP5s are those registered prior to the the '68 GCA, and there were few, if any, in civilian hands. A "real" MP5 would be worth a lot more than the 15K or so of a converted HK 94. Manufactures could still legally convert semi-auto HK 94s up through 1986, when the making of new civilian transferable machine guns was stopped. That fixed the number of conversions, or conversion parts, to those that had been registered at the time of the 1986 law.

Virtually all of the FA MP5s are converted 94s. The pinned lower is just a feature of the real MP5 receiver vs. the HK 94 receiver, not the "reason" that a civilian can't own one. The real reason is the GCA of 1968.
 

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There are 3 different types:
Registered receiver
Registered sear
Registered sear pack

Some of the registered receivers were built as swing down push pin receivers meaning they would be a 3 push pin receiver and accept an unmodified full auto trigger pack just like a factory MP5. For example here is one Vahn at Auto Weapons has listed for sale: http://autoweapons.com/photos06/oct/1668hk.html

About the closest thing you will get to a factory correct MP5 today that is transferable.

If there are any real MP5's from 68 out there they never come up for sale in the open market.
 

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I am just curious about one thing.

No civilian can own a true MP5 because the real deal is pinned to the lower, isnt that correct?

So the only "real" MP5's are in the hands of SOT's and LEO's because they are built to the original German blueprints. The ones that cost civi's 14000 dollars have fleming sears or something that allows full auto fire.

Am I right about the above post because I have always been pretty confused about this...
Not entirely correct. there were a few converters back in the day that remanufactured the 94 into carbon copies of the MP5, down to the swing down lower. Most did not do this because even then, sears were a cheaper alternative to the cutting, fabricating and welding involved in this type of conversion, and HK full auto parts were very hard to get out of Chantilly.

Bill Wittstein, "Billistics" was one of the better of those type converters, and his bring a premium. They are not sear guns, they are "registered receiver" conversions. This allows the user to quickly switch out the lower to any style he has available. I handed my Billistics conversion to an HK engineer in Chantilly with instructions to strip it down and advise me of any problems. He kept it for 4 hours, gaged everything with HK tooling, and had 2 questions for me; why was there a stamped company with a CT address on the rear flange, and how did a 3 digit SN get on a MP5 with an 1981 date code.
 

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I am just curious about one thing.

No civilian can own a true MP5 because the real deal is pinned to the lower, isnt that correct?

So the only "real" MP5's are in the hands of SOT's and LEO's because they are built to the original German blueprints. The ones that cost civi's 14000 dollars have fleming sears or something that allows full auto fire.

Am I right about the above post because I have always been pretty confused about this...
It depends on what you call "real". An MP5 and an HK94 are completely identical, with the exception of the following parts:
1. 3 lug barrel with or without threads (HK94s have 16" straight barrels)
2. Push-pin receiver (HK94s have the semi shelf)
3. Marked "MP5" vs. "HK 94" (duh)
4. Full auto trigger pack parts - catch and trip lever (missing in 94 packs)
5. Bolt carrier ramp to push the trip lever (a cut slot in a 94).
6. Paddle mag release.

You can add every single feature to an HK94, even with real German parts, with the exception of #2 - you can't add a push-pin hole to an HK94 and stay legal.

Now, there are some registered receiver push-pin swing down lowers out there. If done right, they would be completely indistinguishable from one that left the factory as an MP5. Some (but not all) can even take unmodified factory trigger packs.

And for $14,000, you get JUST the sear (and maybe the trigger pack) and the Form 4 that makes it legal. What you're really paying for is that piece of paper. Oh, one other thing - a registered receiver swing down lower might go for a little more because it is so very close to a real MP5. But many people (like me) actually prefer the registered sears because they can be moved from gun to gun. For example, I have one sear, but many hosts. So I have a full auto .308, .223, 9mm, and if I ever get them, 10mm MP5/10, .40 cal MP5/40, or a 9mm MP5K. They are the utmost in versatility.
 
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