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I’ve got a vp9 (optics ready) that I just bought a Leupold Deltapoint red dot for. It should arrive later next week. As I understand I need taller sights to be able to cowitness. I found some sights that say optics ready sights but they don’t look any taller than the factory sights. I’ve found some that say suppressor height sights and they clearly look taller. Are the optics ready just a different mounting size or will they work with the red dot and not a suppressor? I’ve tried googling and haven’t found anything that clarifies . What sights are you all using with your red dots?
 

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Typically you need suppressor height sights however there are different variables where even those don't work.

I have a Glock 34 MOS with a Delta Point Pro and typical suppressor height sights are still too short.

My P30 with a Depta Point was just fine with suppressor height.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk
 

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The XS Minimalist suppressor height sights work perfect with the RMR on the VP9. Your Deltapoint is taller than the RMR so the XS sights most likely will be too short. Take a look at the Dawson Precision site. They will have the right height.
 

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I don't co-witness my RDS to my iron sights on a pistol, but I do want BUIS that are visible through the lower1/3 of the optic window.

I initially had a Venom on my VP9 but couldn't find any sights that were the proper height to work with it. Now I have a Holosun 507c with XS sights on it, and they are perfect - they are visible at the bottom of the window, keeping the window as uncluttered as possible, but still there if my optic goes down and I need them.

I don't know if the XS sights will work with the DPP (probably not) but as mentioned, Dawson is a good place to search. There are also the tall Hi-Viz options available on HK webstore, but they don't include the specs for those in the description, so its hard to know if they will work or not.
 

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I don't absolute co-witness my RDS to my iron sights on a pistol, but I do want BUIS that are visible through the lower1/3 of the optic window.
Fixed it for you.

As far as I am aware the XS raised sights are the only set currently available for the OR cut and so the DPP will be too tall.
 

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Fixed it for you.
Thanks, but to be clear, I don't co-witness my pistols, period - absolute, lower third, nor otherwise.

I treat my RDS and my BUIS as two completely separate sighting systems. There is no need for them to be co-witnessed at all, imo.

Totally different on a long gun.
 

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So, what is your plan for solving the problem if your dot goes down? Carry a ball peen hammer to bust the thing off so you can use your irons?
 

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So, what is your plan for solving the problem if your dot goes down? Carry a ball peen hammer to bust the thing off so you can use your irons?
Not sure if that question was directed at me? Like I said above, I use iron sights that are visible through the optic window, preferably in the lower 1/3 of the window to reduce clutter in my FOV. However, I don't co-witness the optic to the iron sights.

So no need for a ball peen hammer if my optic goes down.
 

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Too clear some terms up. Absolute co witness is when the dot is in the same place as the iron sights. Lower 1/3 is as you said. Co witness itself means seeing iron sights and the dot regardless of the dots location. The situation you described seemed like you have your RDS blocking the BUIS completely and so without a QD method (odd for a defensive pistol) would require another means (i.e. hammer) to remove the RDS if it were to fail.
 

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Too clear some terms up. Absolute co witness is when the dot is in the same place as the iron sights. Lower 1/3 is as you said. Co witness itself means seeing iron sights and the dot regardless of the dots location.
I agree that clearing up terms is helpful, as I think the term "co-witness" is thrown around in some confusing ways these days. For clarity - merely being able to see your iron sights through your optic window does not inherently equate to your two sighting systems being "co-witnessed," - absolute, lower third nor otherwise. Rather, "co-witness" is when your RDS is zeroed such that it is "slaved' or aligned, to your iron sights. If you are not using your iron sights as a reference for positioning your RDS, and you have zeroed the two independently, then they are not co-witnessed.

The situation you described seemed like you have your RDS blocking the BUIS completely and so without a QD method (odd for a defensive pistol) would require another means (i.e. hammer) to remove the RDS if it were to fail.
I have no idea what you are getting that from. I said nothing of the sort. My RDS does not block my iron sights at all, otherwise they would not be viable backup sights, would they? As I already said above, my iron sights are visible in the lower portion of the optic window, perfectly usable in case my optic were to go down, without having to do anything but align the irons and shoot.
 

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This is the first time I've heard the term co-witnessed defined as the dot being 'slaved' to the iron sights.

If your iron sights and your dot indicate the same impact point I'd expect the term co-witness to apply regardless of how you get there.

Does it really matter whether you sight both systems independently or if you sight one based on the other as long as the sights put you on target? Yeah you have to verify that both the sighting systems ARE on target if you set one up based on the other but that should be a given regardless.
 

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This is the first time I've heard the term co-witnessed defined as the dot being 'slaved' to the iron sights.

If your iron sights and your dot indicate the same impact point I'd expect the term co-witness to apply regardless of how you get there.
You might expect that, but it's not always the case. Iron sights are two fixed, physical things that are anchored in place on your slide and require more or less perfect alignment for accuracy. A red dot is a floating, single image super-imposed over a target that requires no alignment with anything at all in order to be accurate (once zeroed). They are two very different sighting systems, and it's entirely possible that depending on subtle variations in your sight angle through your optic window before you pull the trigger, your dot might be centered on the target and hitting perfect at your point of aim, while not being perfectly centered over your iron sights at all.

The "co" in "co-witness" refers to one system being based on the sight alignment of the other. This may happen coincidentally, but isn't always the guaranteed outcome of the zeroing process. You may ultimately find that both your irons and your RDS are perfectly zeroed for say, 25 yds, and yet not be in perfect alignment with each other.

I should also explain that for defensive pistol training, I do not look at my iron sights at all (even though they are visible through the optic window). I do not 'line up' my dot with my iron sights before pulling the trigger. I simply place the dot on the target and shoot. The irons are only there in case the dot goes down.

Does it really matter whether you sight both systems independently or if you sight one based on the other as long as the sights put you on target? Yeah you have to verify that both the sighting systems ARE on target if you set one up based on the other but that should be a given regardless.
See above. While you might assume it "should be a given," it isn't always. Zero the dot to the target at the desired distance - whether it lines up with your iron sights or not is irrelevant. In the end, the dot may be centered over your front sight, it may be slightly to one side or the other - it doesn't matter, as long as its properly zeroed.

Again - this is for defensive pistols, designed for fast target acquisition and fast shots at relatively close distances - on rifles, I definitely co-witness my dot (lower 1/3rd) to my irons. Different tool, different requirements, different process.
 

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You are right, but slightly misaligned. You do co witness and state that several times. The "co" is joint or together and while they facilitate the same outcome do so independently.

I definitely co-witness my dot (lower 1/3rd) to my irons. Different tool, different requirements, different process.
To be clear your irons on your rifle sit in the lower 1/3 of the glass with the dot in the same spot of the irons or relatively close or sitting on the front sight?
 

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You are right, but slightly misaligned. You do co witness and state that several times. The "co" is joint or together and while they facilitate the same outcome do so independently.
Well, then we can agree to slightly disagree on what "co" means - I agree it means "joint or together," but I'd still say that means they are zeroed jointly or together. Or, using one as the reference point for zeroing the other.

I don't really have a desire to debate semantics, however. My larger point is that regardless of what you want to call it, I think it's important to treat them as two separate sighting systems, zero them each accordingly and independently, and treat your optic as your primary. At least for defensive pistols.

To be clear your irons on your rifle sit in the lower 1/3 of the glass with the dot in the same spot of the irons or relatively close or sitting on the front sight?
The middle image:

 

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You might expect that, but it's not always the case. Iron sights are two fixed, physical things that are anchored in place on your slide and require more or less perfect alignment for accuracy. A red dot is a floating, single image super-imposed over a target that requires no alignment with anything at all in order to be accurate (once zeroed). They are two very different sighting systems, and it's entirely possible that depending on subtle variations in your sight angle through your optic window before you pull the trigger, your dot might be centered on the target and hitting perfect at your point of aim, while not being perfectly centered over your iron sights at all.

The "co" in "co-witness" refers to one system being based on the sight alignment of the other. This may happen coincidentally, but isn't always the guaranteed outcome of the zeroing process. You may ultimately find that both your irons and your RDS are perfectly zeroed for say, 25 yds, and yet not be in perfect alignment with each other.

I should also explain that for defensive pistol training, I do not look at my iron sights at all (even though they are visible through the optic window). I do not 'line up' my dot with my iron sights before pulling the trigger. I simply place the dot on the target and shoot. The irons are only there in case the dot goes down.



See above. While you might assume it "should be a given," it isn't always. Zero the dot to the target at the desired distance - whether it lines up with your iron sights or not is irrelevant. In the end, the dot may be centered over your front sight, it may be slightly to one side or the other - it doesn't matter, as long as its properly zeroed.

Again - this is for defensive pistols, designed for fast target acquisition and fast shots at relatively close distances - on rifles, I definitely co-witness my dot (lower 1/3rd) to my irons. Different tool, different requirements, different process.
Perhaps I should clarify what I was saying 'should be a given.'
It should be a given that you verify that your sighting systems are on target through actual shooting regardless of how you initially adjust them. IF you are adjusting one based on the other you should verify that it still gets you on target. Particularly true when you are using the lower 1/3 sight picture (middle picture) in your note above. Otherwise you are essentially relying on a bore-sight, only using the irons as the ref for a situation where you can't look down the barrel.
 

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I don't co-witness my RDS to my iron sights on a pistol, but I do want BUIS that are visible through the lower1/3 of the optic window.

I initially had a Venom on my VP9 but couldn't find any sights that were the proper height to work with it. Now I have a Holosun 507c with XS sights on it, and they are perfect - they are visible at the bottom of the window, keeping the window as uncluttered as possible, but still there if my optic goes down and I need them.

I don't know if the XS sights will work with the DPP (probably not) but as mentioned, Dawson is a good place to search. There are also the tall Hi-Viz options available on HK webstore, but they don't include the specs for those in the description, so its hard to know if they will work or not.
I also prefer a uncluttered optic window but after a mini discussion with Archer1440 I've realized that BUIS's are necessary so I installed the XS Minimalist on my VP9 OR with the Holosun 507C X2.
I will use them as they were intended....as BU...I also have a Streamlight laser attached which also could be used as BU...

On another note...I find it odd that we spend anywhere from 200-600 on RDS and expect them to fail
 

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On another note...I find it odd that we spend anywhere from 200-600 on RDS and expect them to fail
I don't expect my optic to fail. In fact, most decent quality pistol optics these days are impressively reliable - certainly a lot more so than they were just a few years ago. But there aren't many electronic devices I'm willing to put 100% of my trust in. ;)
 
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