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Discussion Starter #1
Well, I'm sorry to say that H&K has lost a customer, not that my not-so-deep pockets will make them cry too much.

I own two H&K products, a USPc and a Fabarm H368 shotgun. The USPc was my first ever pistol purchase, and my Fabarm was my first auto-loader. I bought both after much research and looking, and I'm sad to say that I've become disappointed in both, to the extent that I can't ever recommend H&K products.

The USPc needed safety parts/installation (b/c heaven forbid you work on the gun yourself, or take it to an unauthorized gunsmith). No response from customer service. At all. After calling them, they informed me that shipping would be paid by me, and parts would also be covered by me. Any attempt to work on the gun outside of shipping it to them would void the warranty. Well, I'm not sinking that kind of money into a few, easily replaced, parts. Also, unbeknownst to me at the time, the USPc rail system is applicable for exactly one, H&K manufactured, light/laser. Wow.

Now I've found that my Fabarm needs a decent amount of work done on it. Well, as in the case in the pistol, no reply contact from customer service. For a month. After emailing them again, I finally get Sam Bass' email, and he basically says that there are no parts (untrue), and that the lifetime warranty isn't applicable, they just don't work on them anymore. Awesome. Mr. Bass was nice enough to reply at least, but his solutions basically involve jury-rigging some parts to "make it work".

While I've now serviced my USPc myself (which took 20mins and a coffee table, but I'm sure voided whatever warranty there is, like I'd even try), and it does shoot decently, but I'm stuck with a $600 paperweight that says Fabarm/HK on it. I guess lifetime warranty to them means "charging $$ when we have parts, and SOL when we don't".

I've shot a bunch of other pistols now, and a few more autoloaders. Everything has been flawless, with good service to boot. I've been hearing a lot of grumbling from dealers, and even people wishing to become H&K customers. I guess they don't want our money too much.
 

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I'm a little confused by some elements of your tale. On the USPc, did you buy it new or used? You say it needed safety/parts installation. Are you saying you bought a new gun that was defective, or a used gun, or you wanted a different safety system installed than it came with? If you bought it new and it was defective, that's one thing.

The Fabarm-HK connection ended many, many years ago. Are you sure HK ever provided lifetime warranty on these guns?

Regarding the rail on the USP, I'd have to say that's on you, not HK. A bit of research before buying would have found that the USP does not have a standard picatinny rail.
 

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I'm taking your very first and very bitter post with a grain of salt. You do understand that the Fabarm was not made by HK, right? You also know that HK has not actually represented Fabarm for quite sometime and that you could contact the actual manufacturer of the weapon, right? As for the USPc, what leads you to believe that those parts needed replacing? If it is, in fact, a warranty issue, I am 100% certain that HK will cover it. However, if it's just you assuming that you need X and Y parts and there is no real warranty issue, then I would expect HK to want you to pay for it. And that works for any other gun manufacturer. As an aside, normal wear and tear items as well as abuse items are typically not covered...

So exactly what do you think is/was wrong with your toys?
 

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The OP's post sounds like a lot of internet BS wrapped into one nice story.

-If you call HK CS, they answer the phones. If they are on other calls, you can hold. The stories you hear about folks not being able to get a hold of CS astonishes me. If you can operate a phone during business hours, you can get a hold of HK CS.

-The shotgun issue is moot. Get with the manufacture and resolve it.

-As for working on a gun yourself, it does not void any warranty. HK will make you pay for the parts and labor if you mess something up, but that's as far as it goes. There are garage gunsmiths all over this forum that do their own work by ordering parts from HK and HK parts.

-As for folks wanting to stock HK products, there is a wide distributor network for these guns. Any FFL can setup an account with these firms and order product. I am sure the direct dealership options are a little more intensive on the dealers part, but as I said--the guns can be bought.

-The HK USP rail is what it is. The due diligence is your responsibility before buying the product.

-Lastly, the warranty. The pistol is not covered by normal wear and tear, and part changes that you want vs part changes that are defective are two different things.You stated it needed safety/parts instillation; what does this mean?
 

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Yeah. I hate the smell of troll at the beginning of a weekend...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
On my USPc, the decocker was catching, to the point of not working "as it should". It would always decock, but not without a lot of uncertainty, and at some arbitrary point during the cam-stroke. A simple replacement safety-cam or pivot pin would have corrected this. They claimed that shipping/replacement fee would be on me. The gun was bought new. As for the USPc rail, yes, it IS on me. I bought it back in '99 I think, when a lot of guns were starting to come out with rail systems. I know its one of those things, but one would think that in the 15+ years the USPc has been out, that H&K would attempt to produce something that is actually usable with their products. That is not my primary gripe, but just an additional nail in the coffin, for me at least.

As for the Fabarm, again, it was bought new. They were (at the time) ONLY imported by H&K. H&K did (and still does) claim that they provided a LIFETIME warranty on the Fabarm line. I know they never made them, but in accordance with the Fabarm agreement, they would provide ALL replacement/warranty work on all H&K branded Fabarms. Fabarm SpA does not provide ANY international service or warranty work, and expressly states so. There are four parts which I believe to be defective, that are still in current production, that would rectify the problem. The gun does not cycle 50% of the time, with ANY ammunition, 2 3/4" or 3". A new piston (a loose fitting allows gas to circumvent piston) the and spring (waaaay too heavy, heaviest on all the autoloaders I've ever seen), with some work on the rails (considerable rub/binding) would probably alleviate this. But again, this is/was a newly purchased H&K gun. I wouldn't expect these problems on a gun at 1/2 the cost.

H&K deny's any parts are available, nor will authorize a return to even look at the gun. I realize that this is small change to them, but for $1500 between the only two H&K products I own, with both of them requiring work, in my experience, I couldn't recommend the brand. There are just too many better options out there. I'm not bitter, I actually do like my USPc. I'm just disappoint that 100% of the HK branded products I own haven't lived up to the name, however.
 

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I've sent in my guns to HK and have never had an issue. They have always gone over every part of my guns with great care and have replaced anything that should be replaced. There have been times that I had to cover some of the cost due to the wear and tear I put on my handguns. But for me that is part of the cost involved when I decided to purchase the handguns. I hate that your experience is different from the experiences I have had with HK. I wish you the best in your endeavor to find a firearm manufacture who will meet your needs.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I wish I was just trolling the forum. However, I've been a member for three years, as I was previously researching the Fabarm issue. I also realize that H&K came with a premium, well-respected name. That's why I trusted the USP, essentially with my life (it's was primary CCW piece, and now my nightstand backup). I kept the gun, I liked it so much as to look past the (seemingly dangerous) decocking issue.

But I AM frustrated with the Fabarm situation. It was, and is covered by a warranty. Fabarm SpA will not even talk about the HK branded guns. There is a parts distributor in Canada, in which I can take my chances (along with my time and money) with. But is that not what a "warranty" is for? None of the Fabarm or USP issues are normal wear and tear. Both of the guns are new, in box, from dealers. The level of "service" I've received from H&K I wouldn't expect from ANY company, let alone H&K.

As far as regarding this as a fallacy, I would be happy to upload my communication with H&K customer service.

Oh, and about voiding the warranty? From the website itself: "ANY UNAUTHORIZED ALTERATION OR MODIFICATION OF THE FIREARM OR USE OF PARTS OR COMPONENTS NOT ORIGINALLY MADE BY HECKLER & KOCH INC. SHALL VOID THIS WARRANTY."
I think that pretty much sums that up.
 

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Alright, I'll play one more time.

The USP could have been worked on by you, for the cost of buying your own parts, this would be my first choice so that I was not out the shipping cost and my pistol for a bit. The warranty is excellent, and I have used it previously. The gun does need to be shipped to them on your dime though. The USP is an older line of pistol. They have since come out with the P Series and the HK45/C series. These have the 1913 rail and fit all mounted lights. You can also get an adapter for the USP rail. Once the mold is made for a polymer frame, it is extremely expensive to make another one. If you don't like that gun, sell it and buy the more modern version listed previously.

As for there being better options, have at it. I have a lot of experience with other pistol manufactures, and will tell you that hands down HK offers the best in reliability, durability and customer service. No joke. Other manufactures may issue you a return label, but trust me when I say that some of these companies sell guns to customers to beta test and that have inherent design flaws. HK does not do this. They just make you send your stuff to them. After playing warranty and customer service games with many companies, I settled on HK because I don't have to do this.

I think your first post was quite exaggerated, and perhaps if you were to pick up the phone and speak to HK you might be a little more educated on the brand you are writing off.
 

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From:Heckler & Koch - USA

Does HK service and repair older, legacy products?
Yes, but wIth some limitations. Due to a lack of availability of spare parts, the Heckler & Koch USA Repair Staff will no longer be able to work on the following discontinued products:

(PISTOLS) HK4, P9S, VP70Z, and P7K
(LONG GUNS) 270, 300, 630, 770, 940, SL6, SL7, and SLB2000
ALL models of FABARM shotguns

Heckler & Koch USA Repair Staff has limited replacement parts for the following HK firearms: SP89, HK911, SR9, and HK90 Series. Spare parts for some HK legacy products are available from Numrich Gun Parts Corp. and other sources. Contact HK Customer Service for more information.


It sucks, but it is what it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
As I mentioned previously Apollo, one cannot simply work on the USPc without voiding the warranty. As one with experience with pistol manufactures, you should already know this. However, I chose to do so, in seeing that any warranty work is essentially forgone with H&K.

I have spoken with H&K, over the phone, about both problems. Hence the frustration in my posts. I was left disappointed both times. IMO, warranty work should not cost money. IMO, warranty work, if promised, should be executed. Neither has been provided. I am exceedingly happy that many, if not most people have had a good experience with H&K and their customer service. Sadly, that wasn't the case for me, for what ever reason. My USPc has never had a FTF/FTE/FTanything except decock smoothly, which again, IMO, presents a problem in a new gun. I just shot the thing last week, and while it is not a perfect gun, I am happy with it in the end. My experience however with H&K has left me anything but happy.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Pointblank, I did see that. However, just scroll a little more:
Explain the Benelli and Fabarm situation.
Heckler & Koch no longer imports Benelli or Fabarm firearms. Heckler & Koch Inc. still covers the Fabarm warranty for the firearms that are marked with the HK import logo.
 

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I wish I was just trolling the forum. However, I've been a member for three years, as I was previously researching the Fabarm issue....
Then why chime in at this point with all of the complaints?

Why didn't you ask for help then?....or now?

What was your first post supposed to accomplish?
 

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Oh, and about voiding the warranty? From the website itself: "ANY UNAUTHORIZED ALTERATION OR MODIFICATION OF THE FIREARM OR USE OF PARTS OR COMPONENTS NOT ORIGINALLY MADE BY HECKLER & KOCH INC. SHALL VOID THIS WARRANTY."
I think that pretty much sums that up.
That seems like a pretty standard warranty to me, not for only a firearm, but many other things too. That doesn't say you can't take it apart or replace parts on your own. It just says that HK isn't responsible if you put non-HK parts in the gun and they screw the gun up.
 

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That seems like a pretty standard warranty to me, not for only a firearm, but many other things too. That doesn't say you can't take it apart or replace parts on your own. It just says that HK isn't responsible if you put non-HK parts in the gun and they screw the gun up.
FOR THE WIN!

If you modify your HK to do things it was not intended to do this violates the warranty. You can work on your pistol yourself, if you mess it up; and they have to fix it---the $$$ is on you.

Not that hard.
 

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I think putting aftermarket or "non-approved" Glock parts will void the Glock warranty too. There are some aftermarket companies that are approved, others that are not. I think HK would rectify your safety/decocker issue if they inspected it themselves. Despite your skill at gunsmithing, they have to be the one to make the call on which and what parts are defective and failing. ... it's a drag to send it in. But like dwillHK stated, this policy spans across the board with manufacturers of all sorts. Cars and computers can't be worked on without voiding warranty unless the diagnostics and repairs are done by authorised technicians.

I'm sorry you're having these problems. It's never pleasant to deal with the stresses of having our favorite things malfunction and need repair.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Funny, that's not at all what I took from the statement that H&K has expressly stated, in bold, in their warranty.
I guess I'm confused about both of your interpretations of:

ANY UNAUTHORIZED ALTERATION OR MODIFICATION OF THE FIREARM OR USE OF PARTS OR COMPONENTS NOT ORIGINALLY MADE BY HECKLER & KOCH INC. SHALL VOID THIS WARRANTY.

Seems that replacing parts on your own, whether H&K manufactured (as mine were) or otherwise, would justify this, but again, since there is no warranty coverage to be had, its a moot point.

Further, the point of my vent wasn't claiming that I couldn't do the repairs, it was to bring light to the fact that H&K will not do the repairs. And if that is the case, as it is in mine, you are voiding any remaining warranty. Their warranty, on paper, is fine. I'm great with it. But the issue remains what is left for recourse when warranty repairs is guaranteed, for life, yet not fulfilled?
 

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Funny, that's not at all what I took from the statement that H&K has expressly stated, in bold, in their warranty.
I guess I'm confused about both of your interpretations of:

ANY UNAUTHORIZED ALTERATION OR MODIFICATION OF THE FIREARM OR USE OF PARTS OR COMPONENTS NOT ORIGINALLY MADE BY HECKLER & KOCH INC. SHALL VOID THIS WARRANTY.

Seems that replacing parts on your own would justify this, but again, since there is no warranty coverage to be had, its a moot point.
Perhaps it's a matter of interpretation. Let's look at a case that happens all the time: I buy a HK45C V1 DA/SA. I want it to be converted to LEM. I buy HK parts for the gun and make the change on my kitchen table with the help of youtube and this forum. The gun functions fine. Did I violate my warranty? NO. The same thing happens as in my story, and I botch the install. I send it to HK, and tell them to look at my back strap that looks funny to me. HK would most likely charge me for the botched LEM repair, but still cover the back strap under warranty.

There would have been warranty service had you sent them the gun. So your claim of a lack of warranty is not valid.
 
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