Does the extension have to be welded to add a stock to a pistol legally?

3238 Views 17 Replies 8 Participants Last post by swiss_seth, Jul 12, 2012

SkiTTLeKiLLeR

Discussion Starter · Jul 10, 2012 (Edited)

I'm getting a coharie mp5 pistol and want to add a stock to it but I need the SBR paperwork done. I want to know if i can add a fake can, pin it on and add a compound like JB Weld so the can is not easily removed. I want to be able to convert it from pistol to rifle with out having to go find someone to re-weld or remove the weld when i want to jump back and forward from pistol with no stock and can to rifle with stock and fake can until i do receive my paperwork back. Once i get it registered as a SBR plus have the new suppressor registered i won't have to worry about doing this any more.

Would this be legal in most states? I'm from Louisiana and from what i heard from others you have to have a 16 inch barrel or an extension that's pinned and welded. But does it have to be really welded as i heard?

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housertl

· #2 · Jul 10, 2012

SkiTTLeKiLLeR said:
I'm getting a coharie mp5 pistol and want to add a stock to it but I need the SBR paperwork done. I want to know if i can add a fake can, pin it on and add a compound like JB Weld so the can is not easily removed. I want to be able to convert it from pistol to rifle with out having to go find someone to re-weld or remove the weld when i want to jump back and forward from pistol with no stock and can to rifle with stock and fake can until i do receive my paperwork back. Once i get it registered as a SBR plus have the new suppressor registered i won't have to worry about doing this any more.

Would this be legal in most states? I'm from Louisiana and from what i heard from others you have to have a 16 inch barrel or an extension that's pinned and welded. But does it have to be really welded as i heard?

BATFE requires that it be affixed in such a way that removal cannot be accomplished with common tools. Blind pin is the best way.

Also, be aware that once you SBR a pistol, it is now legally a RIFLE. Once you do so, if you revert it to the pistol configuration, you now have a "Pistol made from a rifle", AKA a big no-no. If you want a pistol, leave it as is. if you want an SBR, do that.

Personally, I would wait for the tax stamp, then aquire the stock (to avoid the constructive intent issue), rather than gunsmithing your pistol to a 16" barreled rifle, then gunsmithing it back once you get your stamp.

retrodog

· #3 · Jul 10, 2012

SkiTTLeKiLLeR said:
I'm getting a coharie mp5 pistol and want to add a stock to it but I need the SBR paperwork done. I want to know if i can add a fake can, pin it on and add a compound like JB Weld so the can is not easily removed. I want to be able to convert it from pistol to rifle with out having to go find someone to re-weld or remove the weld when i want to jump back and forward from pistol with no stock and can to rifle with stock and fake can until i do receive my paperwork back. Once i get it registered as a SBR plus have the new suppressor registered i won't have to worry about doing this any more.

Would this be legal in most states? I'm from Louisiana and from what i heard from others you have to have a 16 inch barrel or an extension that's pinned and welded. But does it have to be really welded as i heard?

There's no state-to-state variations on this. It's a federal thing. There some stuff that you can't have in certain states, but it's a federal law that constitutes what is a rifle and how this is legally done.

jdonovan

· #4 · Jul 10, 2012

+1 on wait for the stamp.

Do it once, do it right, and don't pay to un-do what you didn't have to do in the first place.

SkiTTLeKiLLeR

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jul 10, 2012

I wasn't planning on converting it back to a pistol once the SBR was given the ok but it good to know. I rather the SBR over the pistol set up. I just don't understand the purpose of a rifle in a pistol set up. All i want is to put a retractable stock on it but i like the shorter barrel. I heard the license takes 4 months. So i have to wait 4 months or so before i can really have an accurate gun because with out the stock i wouldn't think the accuracy would be that stable. Correct me if i'm wrong on either of these ideals. I'm speaking from using an ak with a folding stock.

When the stock wasnt in use it was hard to keep on target. I'm sure others could do better.

housertl

· #6 · Jul 10, 2012

SkiTTLeKiLLeR said:
I wasn't planning on converting it back to a pistol once the SBR was given the ok but it good to know. I rather the SBR over the pistol set up. I just don't understand the purpose of a rifle in a pistol set up. All i want is to put a retractable stock on it but i like the shorter barrel. I heard the license takes 4 months. So i have to wait 4 months or so before i can really have an accurate gun because with out the stock i wouldn't think the accuracy would be that stable. Correct me if i'm wrong on either of these ideals. I'm speaking from using an ak with a folding stock.

When the stock wasnt in use it was hard to keep on target. I'm sure others could do better.

Have you tried the sling pressure method? Not a stock, for sure, but it is supposed to work fairly well. The Tax stamp will take as long as the BATFE decides it will take, 4-6 months seems about right.

SkiTTLeKiLLeR

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 10, 2012

can you tell me or point me in the right direction to learn about the method. I searched on youtube and found nothing.

fullmann

· #8 · Jul 10, 2012

its an AK, but you can get an idea of how to do it. just pull the sling real tight, then push forward on the gun. the 9mm is a whole lot easier to use as a pistol than just about any of the rest of the pistol out of a rifle setups.

Draco pistol test + TT3 3-point sling - YouTube

swiss_seth

· #9 · Jul 11, 2012

housertl said:
Also, be aware that once you SBR a pistol, it is now legally a RIFLE. Once you do so, if you revert it to the pistol configuration, you now have a "Pistol made from a rifle", AKA a big no-no. If you want a pistol, leave it as is. if you want an SBR, do that.

are you sure about that...

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/152757-pistol-sbr-noob-question.html

in the above thread that is how I always understood SBR ownership like with the MP5K-PDW clones or builds

jdonovan

· #10 · Jul 11, 2012

swiss_seth said:
are you sure about that...

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/152757-pistol-sbr-noob-question.html

in the above thread that is how I always understood SBR ownership like with the MP5K-PDW clones or builds

I don't see anything in the refrenced thread that provides a path to convert a SBR back into a pistol. (please please please lets not drag glock carbine kits into the discussion)

housertl

· #11 · Jul 11, 2012

swiss_seth said:
are you sure about that...

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-nfa-talk/152757-pistol-sbr-noob-question.html

in the above thread that is how I always understood SBR ownership like with the MP5K-PDW clones or builds

Actually, no, I'm not, but not because of that thread.

I found this ATF ruling this morning: http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf. The problem is that it does not specifically address SBRs. What this ruling states is that you can take your pistol, put a 16 inch barrel and stock on it, and use it as a rifle, and then revert to it's original pistol configuration. This is great for people who want to use a Mech Tech, or comparable product, to carbine their pistol. What it doesn't address is how this applies to SBRs. It could be inferred that it would, since the ruling mentions products like the KPOS, Roni, or HERA, but is not explicit. I would send a request to the Technical Division of the ATF to clarify this ruling as is applies to pistols that are converted to SBRs.

The other issue has to do more with if you are going to carry the pistol concealed, and is what is more likely to vary from state to state; for example, VA issues a Concealed HANDGUN Permit, not a Concealed WEAPONS Permit. Once you register a pistol as an SBR, it is, legally, a rifle, and not legal for carry in VA, regardless of configuration. You use it to defend yourself, and they run the serial number, you get popped for carrying an illegal concealed weapon.

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Gawker

· #12 · Jul 11, 2012

Thompson Center seems to be largely overlooked in the H&K world for some reason, but in the AR/M4 world it's gospel because of the modular nature of the platform. Now to the people debating the ability to CCW/CHL/WTF your SBR in a pistol configuration I just have a question......how in the $&#@ would you even go about concealed carrying something as freakishly large as an MP5 (or really even a K for that matter) in a pistol configuration anyways?! Wouldn't you need a backpack to pull that off? I mean I'm not trying to stir the bucket here but even a K configuration would seem almost impossible to prevent from "printing" on your person (a big no-no here in Texas)

housertl

· #13 · Jul 11, 2012

Gawker said:
Thompson Center seems to be largely overlooked in the H&K world for some reason, but in the AR/M4 world it's gospel because of the modular nature of the platform. Now to the people debating the ability to CCW/CHL/WTF your SBR in a pistol configuration I just have a question......how in the $&#@ would you even go about concealed carrying something as freakishly large as an MP5 (or really even a K for that matter) in a pistol configuration anyways?! Wouldn't you need a backpack to pull that off? I mean I'm not trying to stir the bucket here but even a K configuration would seem almost impossible to prevent from "printing" on your person (a big no-no here in Texas)

You likely would need a backpack....5.11 makes one that was specifically designed to hold a full size MP5. Not for everyone, but I can see the validity in some places in the US. Interestingly enough, some of the places where you would likely find it the most comforting to have around(southern AZ, for example), are the places that seem to be just fine with the idea.

Gawker

· #14 · Jul 11, 2012

Well that actually seems entirely reasonable when you put it that way thanks, I guess I just don't think about CCW/CHL in terms other than a pistol on my person rather than in a pack though legally in a pack is the same thing as "on my person" I just don't feel like I'd be AS comfortable retrieving the weapon from a pack as drawing it from a holster so I never really considered it. Thanks for the lesson

housertl

· #15 · Jul 11, 2012

Gawker said:
Well that actually seems entirely reasonable when you put it that way thanks, I guess I just don't think about CCW/CHL in terms other than a pistol on my person rather than in a pack though legally in a pack is the same thing as "on my person" I just don't feel like I'd be AS comfortable retrieving the weapon from a pack as drawing it from a holster so I never really considered it. Thanks for the lesson

If TX allows you to carry a concealed SBR, and you have one, I would DEFINITELY look at the Smart Carry pack I mentioned; from concealment to full deployment of an MP5, it is FAST. And it could be worthwhile, depending on what part of TX you live in...I have heard that some of the areas near the border are getting pretty hairy.

ts160

· #16 · Jul 11, 2012

What area are those. I live in El Paso and crime is extremely low considering we have Juarez Mexico a stone throw away literally. With all the daily killings in Juarez it is considered one of the most dangerous cities. Compared to el paso which is considered one of the safest cities in the country as for as crime. People can't drive worth a crap here.

ts160

· #17 · Jul 11, 2012

Safest city as far as crime

swiss_seth

· #18 · Jul 12, 2012

jdonovan said:
I don't see anything in the refrenced thread that provides a path to convert a SBR back into a pistol. (please please please lets not drag glock carbine kits into the discussion)

I figured I misread the post, my bad!

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