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Discussion Starter #1
I did a search here but found nothing on the subject. Has anyone tried the DPM recoil reducers for their HK45 full size? I have used the DPM RR on my other pistols and noticed a felt difference. Just wondering if anyone has tried it on their HK45?
 

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DPM does not offer this device for the HK45, or any other Heckler und Koch pistol
 

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Discussion Starter #3
DPM does not offer this device for the HK45, or any other Heckler und Koch pistol
Actually, although they do not advertise or list it in their lineup they do offer it for the HK45 full size. They indicated that they have previously made a run of them and it can be special ordered. I was impressed with their RR on my other pistols and am considering special ordering one for my HK45. I just thought I would ask for any direct experience with the DPM RR on the HK45 before I placed that special order...
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Jeff,
I haven't fully settled on cost yet, but I do have a contact there that I am working with to get one on my own dime to test it out for myself. If it works as well on my HK45 as it did on my other pistols and if anyone else is interested, perhaps I can provide a review (be it unscientific and subjective) and work with my contact to come here and offer something to members...

If I understand correctly, the HK45 has a stock recoil reducing system with that nylon bushing which "cushions" the impact at the end of the spring travel. The DPM system has what can be described as 3 separate springs which provide different constants starting from light to progressively stiffer. This, at least in theory, acts much like a shock absorber and actually slows the speed of the slide travel near the end, resulting in less of an "impact" and more of a "push". I tested this theory on my Glock G26 subcompact, Beretta 96A1, and my Walther P99. I shoot local IDPA and USPSA and they all provided a noticeable difference in reduced felt recoil and muzzle rise particularly when shooting fast strings.

I just wanted to see if anyone has tried the RR system on their HK45 already so I can have more data points?
 

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I ordered and installed a Sprinco reduced recoil duel spring Assy. in my Walther PPQ 9mm. and it really works well. But sadly as of now Sprinco does not offer any for the HKs. Maybe if more HK owners contacted the owner of Sprinco Mr. Alan Dugger he might get started Designing one for theHKs.
Sprinco USA -- Recoil Reducers
 

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DPM has serious quality/durability problems. Sprinco (new production) is better made, but I see no point in using either in HK. HK USP already has dual spring setup, more sophisticated than either DPM and Sprinco, yet HK decide to ditch it in favor of single, flat spring with polymer buffer.

Making system for HK is not easy, actually nobody except HK, makes reliable one. Problem is that HK recoil spring guide is one piece with locking guide for barrel. I was told that DPM tried to make system for HK, by modifying original HK recoil assembly, but it had durability problems.

I used Sprinco in my race STI, but only because I used 9lb main spring in .40SW gun - Sprinco protected frame and slide. Lot of testing made me to believe that single spring design (with proper spring) is superior to dual spring one - especially in fast (IDPA, USPSA/IPSC) shooting. Only place is in pistols that have too short action (sub-compacts). Good example of problems with dual spring setup is Glock 17 Gen4 - it does not shoot better, flatter or faster that Gen3, but have all sorts of reliability problems - all this for slightly softer perceived recoil.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Montrala - thanks for the reply. Would you pls elaborate on quality/durability problems you have encountered with the DPM systems? I love my HK45 and it has been 100% reliable and I do not want to affect that aspect of the pistol....If there is a system that reduces felt recoil and/or muzzle rise I would like to try it out, but not at the expense of reliability....

Although I have not tried the Sprinco systems, there are enough bad reports of them on the net (not sure if they were old production or new), that I was reluctant to try them. The same amount of research did not yield as many negative reports of the DPM...Dunno, I realize all this is anecdotal anyways, but all data points are appreciated...
 

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HK USP already has dual spring setup, more sophisticated than either DPM and Sprinco, yet HK decide to ditch it in favor of single, flat spring with polymer buffer.
This is probably the biggest thing to look at. HK's recoil system has already evolved.
 

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Did it evolve or was the dual system only there to begin with the to handle insane loads in the MK23 (and by default the USPf)?

The compact developed a year later has the current recoil spring/buffer setup up. I don't think anybody (important) asked to be able to use 45 super equivalent loads in this platform for military use, otherwise I'm sure it would sport the same setup.
 

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HK45 can shoot +P rounds as well. This recoil system in USP is great if shots considered one after other, but for fast shooting it is main reason of high muzzle flip and slow cycling slide known in USPf (most of people wrongly blame high bore axis for that).

USPf system is unique in it's work, because recoil assembly is floating on secondary spring in first phase of shot, allowing locked barrel to recoil together with slide. Only after second spring is compressed, recoil assembly stops it's rearward movement and slide can unlock from barrel. This movement is not replicable by hand cycling. Great example of over-engineering that HK sometime does. But when you push the borders in pursue of best solutions, it happens.

Other systems works either by all springs working together to offer longer effective spring travel by having both springs work more-less simultaneously (P2000SK, G26, Glock Gen4, STI Recoil Master), or to cushion last portion of travel when second springs enter after specific amount of slide travel (Sprinco), or to combine both principles using 3 springs (DPM).

In my search for fastest, smoothest shooting STI in .40SW I tested with (every system with several main spring weights both linear and progressive) STI Recoil Master, Sprinco and classic system with polymer buffer. What I found, to my surprise, best for shooting (while hard on hands) was classic system with linear spring.

But because Sprinco was not much worse shooting and provided better "feel" for both hands and frame life expectancy, I decided for Sprinco. BTW Standard STI Recoil Master setup made my STI to be as flippy and sluggish as my USP Expert .40SW was.

I had also opportunity to shoot Walther P99 9mm with stock recoil system and with DPM recoil system. Shooting with DPM P99 did not have it's very pronounced hard kicking recoil characteristic, but it also had noticeably larger muzzle flip. Overall I prefer P99 with stock system.

Glock 17 Gen4 and it's recoil system is just long, sad story that everyone knows anyway.

But, I must admit that I love double spring recoil system in P2000SK and can shoot it fast and flat (using P2000SK in IDPA SSP I made EX classification - same as with P30L).
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Interesting....I have a P99 with the DPM installed and prefer that over the stock system. I experienced the opposite, as with the DPM RR I had less felt recoil and less muzzle rise vs. the stock system...Same for my G26..
I guess I can chalk that up to subjectivity and personal preference. What I am interested in is Montrala's prior comments about quality and durability of the DPM RR system. Again, pls elaborate on that...what experience have you had that leads you to this conclusion?
 

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Montrala- did you make a post in the past about replacing the USP expert dual recoil spring with a single spring linear unit? It was a very interesting read.
 

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Montrala- did you make a post in the past about replacing the USP expert dual recoil spring with a single spring linear unit? It was a very interesting read.
Actually this is what Bruce Gray did when he was shooting USP in HK Team. Also Lukas from Czech modified his Expert this way.

Interesting....I have a P99 with the DPM installed and prefer that over the stock system. I experienced the opposite, as with the DPM RR I had less felt recoil and less muzzle rise vs. the stock system...Same for my G26..
I guess I can chalk that up to subjectivity and personal preference. What I am interested in is Montrala's prior comments about quality and durability of the DPM RR system. Again, pls elaborate on that...what experience have you had that leads you to this conclusion?
Dual spring setup like DPM or Recoil Master provide feeling of less recoil. This is true, however "tracking" is usually worse than single spring setup. But in pistols like G26 or P2000SK dual system is essential - there is just not enough place for single spring system to work properly. This is one of factors or reduced reliability of some very small pistols. Dual spring setup of G26 and P2000SK makes spring to work on effective longer travel. As to personal preference - dual spring system feels better to me as well. Only timer and hit factor on targets show otherwise for me.

Durability problems were mostly system going apart and flying outside pistol (this happens also to STI Recoil Master and plagued old Sprinco production). There is also instance in Poland where DPM system, due it's third spring resistance, managed to break out recoil spring guide out of pistol slide. Sprinco works same way in 1911 or 2011 (second spring there serves same purpose as third in DPM), but plug/reverse plug pocket (sorry for my lack of proper terminology in English) is much stronger on 1911/2011 slide that recoil spring guide on P99, Glock or CZ. Worst that can happen is damaged bushing.
 

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I bought a Sprinco reduced recoil spring Assy. for my Walther PPQ 9mm and I feel it has reduced the felt recoil and muzzle flip, also my target groups have greatly improved over using the Walther OEM recoil spring. I feel the two spring systems do a good job.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
thanks for the reply Montrala.

flanker, I saw similar results as you did as my times and hit factors also improved with the DPM RR system on my P99 as well as my G26.
 

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thanks for the reply Montrala.

flanker, I saw similar results as you did as my times and hit factors also improved with the DPM RR system on my P99 as well as my G26.
What I found really great about Sprinco being a in USA Mfg. is when I e-mailed a question to them, the owner Alan Dugger gave me a phone call and discussed my questions with me. We talked a good half hour. Getting it right from the products owner really made me feel good about using the Sprinco system.
 

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Instead of looking for some "snake oil" to fix a problem that is a simple matter of physics, learn how to handle the muzzle flip. I urge all those who have even 9mm pistols who complain about muzzle flip, spend some money on YOURSELF!! Learn from a PRO how to combat the dreaded flip issue. Learning how to control it is far better money spent instead of looking for a cure. If you take lessons and still can't control a 9mm, get a 22. No one should have issues with a 9. 40's have more flip. 45's even more. It's all physics. The heavier the bullet, the more flip you will have. Unavoidable. I hear guys complain about triggers. Learn to shoot the gun. YOU are the weapon, the gun is just a tool. Learn how to control it. Remember, these guns were designed by highly paid engineers who have figured out how to make them RELIABLE and durable as they are when you first get your HK. Why do you WANT to mess with all that engineering that you paid big money for by screwing with these so called devices. Learn to shoot!!
 

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Instead of looking for some "snake oil" to fix a problem that is a simple matter of physics, learn how to handle the muzzle flip. I urge all those who have even 9mm pistols who complain about muzzle flip, spend some money on YOURSELF!! Learn from a PRO how to combat the dreaded flip issue. Learning how to control it is far better money spent instead of looking for a cure. If you take lessons and still can't control a 9mm, get a 22. No one should have issues with a 9. 40's have more flip. 45's even more. It's all physics. The heavier the bullet, the more flip you will have. Unavoidable. I hear guys complain about triggers. Learn to shoot the gun. YOU are the weapon, the gun is just a tool. Learn how to control it. Remember, these guns were designed by highly paid engineers who have figured out how to make them RELIABLE and durable as they are when you first get your HK. Why do you WANT to mess with all that engineering that you paid big money for by screwing with these so called devices. Learn to shoot!!
Thank you such a simple answer, now why did I not think of this?
 

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What I found really great about Sprinco being a in USA Mfg. is when I e-mailed a question to them, the owner Alan Dugger gave me a phone call and discussed my questions with me. We talked a good half hour. Getting it right from the products owner really made me feel good about using the Sprinco system.
From 3 "upgrade" systems that I owned or tried Sprinco was best made. This is quality product. Also Sprinco makes most sense for me as using secondary spring only to cushion last part of slide travel gave me as much control on the gun as traditional system.
 
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