[Burke888]

Failure To Feed HK USP *Update pg. 2*

***UPDATE Page 2***

HK USP .40 S&W

I'm getting some failures to feed recently. The round is stipped off of the magazine, but the nose of the round is lodged in the upper portion of the chamber/barrel area. The slide forces the round upward, and the nose of the round strikes the top of the barrel, creating a failure to feed.

I haven't been able to attribute this to anything. The only thing I have noticed is that when it happens, it tends to be on one of the last few rounds of a magazine, but it is very sporadic (1 in 150 rounds). The weapon hasn't been cleaned in 700 rounds, but it should still be able to function fine. Any ideas?
Thanks!

 

[nwusp45]

Clean and lube.

 

[swiftwrx06]

I've experienced the exact same problem with my USP .40. Usually on the last round in the magazine. I just attributed it to a new gun being broken in but after firing a few thousand rounds, it still does it every once in a while though far less often. The last time the gun probably had a little over 500 rounds before the last cleaning but I still expect better reliability from HK. Maybe I'm just pissed because the last failure happened during a competition, but it could have been worse - life/death scenario.

 

[littlebuf]

WHAT this could never happen to a hk!!!!! im shocked you guys havnt got hate mail on this one for even sugesting this:18:

 

[JLStorm]

If my gun fails more than once or twice in every few thousand rounds and it cant be attributed to the ammunition itself, I wont carry it. Most HKs that you hear about on these boards havent failed in many thousands of rounds, if ever. If you are having more failures than this, check your ammo, try different ammo, mags springs, mags and if all else fails call HK. 1 failure every few hundred rounds is unacceptable for any gun that is anything more than a range toy.

 

[softmentor]

I'm thinking start with a good cleaning of the gun AND the mags. Especially the ramp and the walls of the mags and the sides of the followers. If you are like me and drop your mags in the dirt when doing speed changes, it is very easy for material to build up in the mag.
Was this with any one particular mag or did it happen with more than one mag?
Just questions and sugestions. Not sure I have any answers.

 

[JLStorm]

I'm thinking start with a good cleaning of the gun AND the mags. Especially the ramp and the walls of the mags and the sides of the followers. If you are like me and drop your mags in the dirt when doing speed changes, it is very easy for material to build up in the mag.
Was this with any one particular mag or did it happen with more than one mag?
Just questions and sugestions. Not sure I have any answers.

I agree with the mags, as they can be a simple point of failure, but dont you think it seems abnormally huge failure rate if its not the mags? These guns are meant to run dirty in crappy conditions, I mean look at Greg Bell's tests, 4000 rounds in between cleaning twice and no failures. That is how these guns should perform, so unless its mags...Id be very worried dirty or not, you know what I mean?

 

[Burke888]

I agree with the mags, as they can be a simple point of failure, but dont you think it seems abnormally huge failure rate if its not the mags? These guns are meant to run dirty in crappy conditions, I mean look at Greg Bell's tests, 4000 rounds in between cleaning twice and no failures. That is how these guns should perform, so unless its mags...Id be very worried dirty or not, you know what I mean?

JL, I agree completely. This is completely unacceptable in any firearm. These failures are new, and have just recently cropped up. It's not the ammo, I've been using the same ammo since I got the gun back in 2003. This is not a cleaning issue in my opinion, the weapon should run just fine. The only thing I could think of would be a weak magazine spring, but I am not sure? Can anyone give me an excact part number to order new springs? I checked out Wolff but was confused by the website as to what springs I needed.
2x 10 Round HK USP .40 S&W
1x 13 Round HK USP .40 S&W
Thanks for the help and keep it coming.

 

[JLStorm]

JL, I agree completely. This is completely unacceptable in any firearm. These failures are new, and have just recently cropped up. It's not the ammo, I've been using the same ammo since I got the gun back in 2003. This is not a cleaning issue in my opinion, the weapon should run just fine. The only thing I could think of would be a weak magazine spring, but I am not sure? Can anyone give me an excact part number to order new springs? I checked out Wolff but was confused by the website as to what springs I needed.
2x 10 Round HK USP .40 S&W
1x 13 Round HK USP .40 S&W
Thanks for the help and keep it coming.

How many rounds would you say youve put through the gun? Certain parts may wear after extensive use which could be a factor. Also the recoil spring should be changed out every 10k rounds. A guide for Wolff springs is available as a sticky in this forum. Another possibility could be a damaged extractor slowing the ejection process, thus slowing the feeding process and messing with the timing.

Again, the key here would be how many rounds do you have in the gun, and how many magazines do you use?

 

[pilotdane]

My P2Ksk recently went back to H&K because it would FTF on the last round in the magazine. Tech support said the way they tell if the extractor/ejector (can't remember which) needs tweeking is to slowly cycle the gun by hand. Bringing the slide forward slowly will make it jam if it is ever going to.

Give H&K support a call they should be able to figure it out.

Oh, and clean your gun. It can't hurt.

 

[Captain America]

99.99% of the time it's either the ammo or the magazine causing that
problem.

HK Handgun Physics Law #1.
HK hanguns are perfect and will continue to function perfectly unless acted upon by an outside force.

 

[Burke888]

Alright everyone, thank you very much for the help. I want to wait on sending the weapon back to HK because the shipping is expensive to me. I tried manually cycling some rounds through the weapon. I did this very slow. I had no troubles at all until the last round in each of my three magazines. In all previous instances, the round would pop up past the firing pin hole on the breech face and then be rammed into the chamber.
However, on the last round in each of the three magazines, every single time, the round would not pop up as high as the others did. It wouldn't even be popped up enough to cover the firing pin. When the slide kept moving forward, the round wasn't high enough to effectively cycle into the chamber.

At this point I believe I have week magazine springs or the extractor claw is damaged and it is messing up the feeding of the final round. I checked the FAQ and did not see a specific part number for Wolff magazine springs, I only saw 10lbs + listed. Are there different springs for different types of magazines, and if so, which ones do I need?

Finally, can anyone post a picture of their extractor claw so I can cross check it with mine to check for damage? I appreciate all of the help, you guys have been wonderful.

 

[kilo-11]

I tried manually cycling some rounds through the weapon. I did this very slow. I had no troubles at all until the last round in each of my three magazines. In all previous instances, the round would pop up past the firing pin hole on the breech face and then be rammed into the chamber.
However, on the last round in each of the three magazines, every single time, the round would not pop up as high as the others did. It wouldn't even be popped up enough to cover the firing pin. When the slide kept moving forward, the round wasn't high enough to effectively cycle into the chamber.

I would blame the mag springs at this point.

 

[HKIWB]

Weak mag spring and/or filth under the magazine lips causing a drag on the top of the round as it is being chambered. This seems to be the cause of this exact type of feed jam in my Walther P22. I've never had this type of jam in my USP, but the Walther has tought me oh so much about preventing feed issues by keeping my mags spotless.

 

[orfeo]

. . . At this point I believe I have week magazine springs or the extractor claw is damaged and it is messing up the feeding of the final round. I checked the FAQ and did not see a specific part number for Wolff magazine springs, I only saw 10lbs + listed. Are there different springs for different types of magazines, and if so, which ones do I need?. . .

HK part#214212, Wolff part#78571, fullsize USP 40 13-round mag-spring

HK part#214850, Wolff part#78671, fullsize USP 40 10-round mag-spring

All the Wolff USP mag-springs are +10% in strength when compared with the stock HK mag-springs. You can replace yours with either the original factory springs or you can go with the Wolff springs. The Wolff springs will give you more and longer reliability (in my humble opinion) but they are VERY stiff and will give you very strong fingers from loading the mags. . .

 

[orfeo]

If the Wolff mag-springs don't solve your problem (I strongly think they will), then the next thing to look at would be the extractor. For now, just be sure that the extractor moves smoothly with no binding or grinding, and that there is no crud built up behind the "tooth" which would interfere with it getting a good bite on the case

 

[Burke888]

Alright everyone, thank you very much for the help. I want to wait on sending the weapon back to HK because the shipping is expensive to me. I tried manually cycling some rounds through the weapon. I did this very slow. I had no troubles at all until the last round in each of my three magazines. In all previous instances, the round would pop up past the firing pin hole on the breech face and then be rammed into the chamber.
However, on the last round in each of the three magazines, every single time, the round would not pop up as high as the others did. It wouldn't even be popped up enough to cover the firing pin. When the slide kept moving forward, the round wasn't high enough to effectively cycle into the chamber.

At this point I believe I have week magazine springs or the extractor claw is damaged and it is messing up the feeding of the final round. I checked the FAQ and did not see a specific part number for Wolff magazine springs, I only saw 10lbs + listed. Are there different springs for different types of magazines, and if so, which ones do I need?

***UPDATE***
A replacement magazine spring for my 13 round magazine came in. I am still waiting for the two for the 10 round magazines.

Using the +10% magazine spring in my 13 round magazine and slowing cycling the weapon by hand, I am still getting the same issue as mentioned above. I want to say that the hand cycling issue may not actually be a problem, but it is similar to the failure to feeds I sporadically get.

Finally, can anyone post a picture of their extractor claw so I can cross check it with mine to check for damage? Once again, I appreciate all of the help.

 

[orfeo]

***UPDATE***
A replacement magazine spring for my 13 round magazine came in. I am still waiting for the two for the 10 round magazines.

Using the +10% magazine spring in my 13 round magazine and slowing cycling the weapon by hand, I am still getting the same issue as mentioned above. I want to say that the hand cycling issue may not actually be a problem, but it is similar to the failure to feeds I sporadically get.

Finally, can anyone post a picture of their extractor claw so I can cross check it with mine to check for damage? Once again, I appreciate all of the help.

The FTFs under normal slide cycling (as opposed to you slowly hand-cycling the slide) should hopefully now be resolved, since you've replaced the mag-spring with the Wolff. Monitor it and see.

As for the extractor claw: I don't have a picture handy to post, but the extractor has a look about it that causes many people to wonder if it is damaged or worn-out. That is until they see the exact same-looking extractor on new pistols and, in-fact, on EVERY USP. They all look like they are worn unevenly on one side. If you do a search, you may be able to find a thread on here which contains extractor pictures, as I have seen them on here before. 95% of USP extractor-related problems are comprised of the following two cleaning/maintenance issues: extractor movement is binding and not able to function smoothly; or, crud is accumulated behind the claw ("tooth" as I like to call it) and limiting its ability to get a good bite on the case rims.

If you've carefully cleaned and lubricated the extractor, including behind the claw (tooth), and checked that it moves smoothly with no binding or grinding, and you have replaced the mag-springs with Wolffs, you have covered all the most likely culprits. Of course that is assuming that the rest of the pistol is reasonably well-cleaned and lubricated, including the mags. Good luck. . . let us know.

 

[MKaprocki]

I've had my USPc .45 since May (bought it new). For the first 4000 rounds, everything was perfect. Beginning around that point, though, I began having the same FTF problem. Round was not being pushed up high enough, causing a jam. Pushing on the rear of the extractor (where the spring is) allows the round to be pushed up and clears the jam.

I bought Wolff +10% springs thinking it would solve the problem, but it did not. They did fix the problem of the slide not locking open, but the jam problem remains. Yesterday I fired 150 rounds and it jammed like this 6 times. It will do this with any brand of ammunition, including my carry stuff (Federal Hydrashok). Naturally, this is unacceptable for a carry piece.

I have paid extra close attention to the extractor and magazines when cleaning lately, but everything looks fine.

I just emailed HK customer service, so I will see what they say. If I don't hear from them by tomorrow, I will give them a call. It figures I am one of the unlucky ones regarding HK reliability...that's just my kind of luck.

 

[orfeo]

I've had my USPc .45 since May (bought it new). For the first 4000 rounds, everything was perfect. Beginning around that point, though, I began having the same FTF problem. Round was not being pushed up high enough, causing a jam. Pushing on the rear of the extractor (where the spring is) allows the round to be pushed up and clears the jam.

I bought Wolff +10% springs thinking it would solve the problem, but it did not. They did fix the problem of the slide not locking open, but the jam problem remains. Yesterday I fired 150 rounds and it jammed like this 6 times. It will do this with any brand of ammunition, including my carry stuff (Federal Hydrashok). Naturally, this is unacceptable for a carry piece.

I have paid extra close attention to the extractor and magazines when cleaning lately, but everything looks fine.

I just emailed HK customer service, so I will see what they say. If I don't hear from them by tomorrow, I will give them a call. It figures I am one of the unlucky ones regarding HK reliability...that's just my kind of luck.

I'm no expert, just trying to be helpful. . .

First, most people on here (including me) have not always had good luck getting a response via e-mail from HK. You might have to call instead.

Even though you said it looked OK, it sounds VERY much to me as if your extractor is gunked up. I usually fold over the edge of a solvent-soaked rag to be thick enough to just barely fit tightly inside the claw (tooth) and pull it back and forth, sawing away at the buildup in there until a clean portion of the rag comes out consistently clean. Even that though may not be enough if some of the buildup has become very hard. I often use the pointed tip of a brass jag to scrape away hard deposits in small corners and crevices. The brass won't scratch through your finish like a steel pick would, yet it easily scrapes away the hard deposits. The other area that could affect the smooth movement of the extractor is where it pivots in the slide recess. To properly clean that you would remove the extractor by removing its roll pin. I haven't had to do this myself, but several people on here have done it and some even found slight metal shavings and such pinched in there. Of course, it is covered by your lifetime warranty if you want to ship your pistol off to HK instead of trying to do it yourself, but that involves the expense of shipping your pistol, and all the down time of waiting to get it back.

Good luck with it, and do let us know how you make out.