[Mattitude]

I finally got my revocable living trust done and am about to SBR my BW89 PDW. I just want to make sure that my Form 1 is done correctly the first time, so I just have a few questions w/some of the blocks.
Block 2. is this trust considered a corperation or other business entity or individual?
Block 3a. Trade name is the name of the trust?
Block 4h. Additional description...would this be the trust engraving?
Block 9. Signature...as settlor of the trust, I would sign this?
Block 10. Name & title of authorized official of firm of corp...would this be my name and settlor as title of the trust?
Block 13. LE certification...it is my understanding that w/a trust I don't require LE sign-off, so what would I put on these blocks? N/A?? Do I need to at least fill in the LE organization and address information?
Also, is the citizen certification form needed with a trust? Please reply from those who have gone this route. I just want to make sure I get everything right. Thanks, Matt

 

[KnobCreek]

+1, I would like to know as well since I am in the process of filling out my living trust and getting it notorized. Once that is done, planning on getting a can for the Tactical.

 

[straightgrain]

Block 2: A trust is a business entity
Block 3a: List any name that you may have created that is different from the registered name to operate the trust. Ex: If the registered trust name is "Bubba & Babbette Gump Trust fbo Bob & Sue Gump" and you have also registered a dba for the trust as "Bubba Gump Trust", then Bubba Gump Trust will go in this block.
Block 4h: any identifying marks that will be added
Block 9: anyone who is authorized to sign on behalf of the trust. BTW, I would list your name under the trust's name in 3b as trust settlor, assuming you are.
Block 10: Leave this blank since your name is listed along with the trust's name in 3b.
CLEO stuff: leave blank
Compliance stuff: I fill it out for me and send it on anyway.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and am not offering legal advice. I am answering these questions to the best of my knowledge and am doing so based upon what has worked for me. My approach may not work the same for you or at all. My best advice would be to find a Class III dealer who has successfully completed many of these and buy him or her a few beverages and ask for help if you are uncertain.

 

[Mattitude]

Thanks for the replies! I'm hoping to get my paperwork sent out next week and soon after be shooting my :28:

 

[28sstony]

I just sent in my paperwork this morning. In addition to the above correct info as per my coversation with the NFA:

fingerprint cards and photos are not needed. On the first line of the citizenship form put the full legal name of the trust, and your name as the executor on the line below and sign and date the bottom.

 

[KnobCreek]

OK, I'm just about ready to finalize creating my trust, but I have a couple questions.

First, can I create numerous separate trust, ie., can I have a trust listing just my firearms collection and another trust listing other things like my real estate, cars, savings/checking account, etc.? I'd like to keep my firearms recording separately.

Secondly, when you list the assets of your trust, do you list everything you already have (firearms related) or can you just use a generalized description such as "Firearms Collection"?

Thirdly, when you do make a purchase under the trust, do you have to revize the list of assets each time? I mean, if I buy a suppressor for my Tactical, under the trust, do I have to revise my list to include the suppressor then get it re-notorized?

Thanks for any input. (OP - sorry to hijack your thread; I was just in the process of creating my trust as well and thought I'd ask the questions here rather than create another thread)

 

[straightgrain]

Knob Creek,
What you're asking for is some very specific legal advice that can and does have answers that will vary from state to state and by the method with which you established the trust. With all due respect, you would be better to seek the advice of a lawyer who is familiar with such issues in your state than to rely on advice gleaned from the Internet, no matter how well intentioned it is.

If you mess this up, the negative effects could be pretty substantial. I would think it's worth the few extra dollars to be sure.

 

[KnobCreek]

Thanks for the warning straightgrain; I do plan on having my lawyer take a look at everything before I have it notorized.

 

[28sstony]

I worded mine to include any NFA items purchased after the initial doccument was created. But again I am not an attorney, so If I were you I would check with one.

Which brings up another question, does anyone know if there is any kind of online listing for attorneys who deal with this sort of thing?

You could spend years calling every atty. in the yellow pages trying to find someone who knows about this stuff.

 

[KnobCreek]

Thanks 28sstony; that's how I had it originally, "Firearms Collection, including any NFA purcahsed items from this date forward". I'll see what my lawyer says about that description.

 

[kwesi]

OK, I'm just about ready to finalize creating my trust, but I have a couple questions.

First, can I create numerous separate trust, ie., can I have a trust listing just my firearms collection and another trust listing other things like my real estate, cars, savings/checking account, etc.? I'd like to keep my firearms recording separately.

Secondly, when you list the assets of your trust, do you list everything you already have (firearms related) or can you just use a generalized description such as "Firearms Collection"?

Thirdly, when you do make a purchase under the trust, do you have to revize the list of assets each time? I mean, if I buy a suppressor for my Tactical, under the trust, do I have to revise my list to include the suppressor then get it re-notorized?

Thanks for any input. (OP - sorry to hijack your thread; I was just in the process of creating my trust as well and thought I'd ask the questions here rather than create another thread)

Knobcreek: I just had my Revocable "Firearms Trust" created by attorney Bob Howell in Florida. All I can tell you, in addition to seeking your own legal advice, is that Article 1 states that "the trust is established for the specific purpose of the ownership and rentention of those certain regulated firearms as defined.....BATF Ref, 27 C.F.R. Part 179.....as defined in Section 179.11 by a Trust Estate".

It then goes on to say "nothing in this "Purpose of Trust" provision shall act to prohibit the Trustee from transfering any non-firearm related assets into this Trust".

Since you are in Ohio I'm not sure if a national article on corporations vs. trusts will be of interest or help but I do have the article saved as a pdf file if you would like a copy.

Reply with your email and I'll send it.

 

[MONEY]

Knobcreek: I just had my Revocable "Firearms Trust" created by attorney Bob Howell in Florida. All I can tell you, in addition to seeking your own legal advice, is that Article 1 states that "the trust is established for the specific purpose of the ownership and rentention of those certain regulated firearms as defined.....BATF Ref, 27 C.F.R. Part 179.....as defined in Section 179.11 by a Trust Estate".

It then goes on to say "nothing in this "Purpose of Trust" provision shall act to prohibit the Trustee from transfering any non-firearm related assets into this Trust".

Since you are in Ohio I'm not sure if a national article on corporations vs. trusts will be of interest or help but I do have the article saved as a pdf file if you would like a copy.

Reply with your email and I'll send it.

Can you please email me your lawyer,s contact info & what he charged you.
THANKS,
[email protected]

 

[flya727]

Gentlemen,

I created my revocable living trust earlier this year. Created it with Quicken Willmaker and had my wifes Probate lawyer (her parents recently passed away) look at it since her parents had a trust. First advice is to FUND the trust with something as soon as it is created ($50.00, antique, ect..), because if it is not funded (nothing in the trust) it is not valid (he used another word, lawyer talk).

From there you can add your NFA items, just make sure you list them on a schedule A each time you get a Tax Stamp back. I am not a lawyer, so have your own guy look at it to be sure for your state.

If you are thinking about going the trust route, do it soon. You never know when the ATF will rule that a trust is not a viable entity to receive NFA items. So far I have 4 on my trust and one more coming. Average time for me with trust is right at 32 days.

Rick

 

[MONEY]

I have read in several places that a trust must be made by a licensed attorney otherwise the state of Florida calls this practiceing without a license. The imformation I read said this only applied in the State of Florida due to state law but I have not confirmed this to be 100% true.

kwesi,
THANKS FOR THE IMFO

 

[flya727]

Not true, but you must have the document funded and documented with a certification and notorized. I just got back my SBR today for my MP5K, took 30 days.

Rick

 

[Worldmariner]

Knobcreek: I just had my Revocable "Firearms Trust" created by attorney Bob Howell in Florida. All I can tell you, in addition to seeking your own legal advice, is that Article 1 states that "the trust is established for the specific purpose of the ownership and rentention of those certain regulated firearms as defined.....BATF Ref, 27 C.F.R. Part 179.....as defined in Section 179.11 by a Trust Estate".

It then goes on to say "nothing in this "Purpose of Trust" provision shall act to prohibit the Trustee from transfering any non-firearm related assets into this Trust".

Since you are in Ohio I'm not sure if a national article on corporations vs. trusts will be of interest or help but I do have the article saved as a pdf file if you would like a copy.

Reply with your email and I'll send it.

+1 on the lawyer! Would you share his number? I live in FL and I am in the process of finding a lawyer that does revocable trusts for NFA guns. Thank you!

 

[insolution]

First, can I create numerous separate trust, ie., can I have a trust listing just my firearms collection and another trust listing other things like my real estate, cars, savings/checking account, etc.? I'd like to keep my firearms recording separately.

Yes.

Secondly, when you list the assets of your trust, do you list everything you already have (firearms related) or can you just use a generalized description such as "Firearms Collection"?

No! Listing an item in the trust that you already own is effectively transferring the the item from your personal ownership to the trust and you would have to apply for the Form 4 and pay $200 for each item transferred!

As for the invetory of the trust, you must list each specific item, i.e. Heckler & Koch MP5A3 9mm Submachine Gun, serial number XXX" as it is acquired...and you don't acquire the item until AFTER your paperwork is returned approved. So the item you are submitting the trust paperwork for is NOT listed as being owned by the trust. It is not owned by the trust until AFTER you get the approval back.

Thirdly, when you do make a purchase under the trust, do you have to revize the list of assets each time? I mean, if I buy a suppressor for my Tactical, under the trust, do I have to revise my list to include the suppressor then get it re-notorized?

You only revise the inventory addendum (Appendix A: Trust Property) each time you get an approved form back. The submitted trust is just a copy of the original but you must submit the whole trust each time you file. So you end up with a single original trust document and a revised (and hopefully long) list of items that the trust owns.

I won't bother with a legal disclaimer. If you are relying on an Internet message board for legal advise you can't confirm on your own, you deserve what you get That's just natural selection at work.

Scott

 

[insolution]

+1 on the lawyer! Would you share his number? I live in FL and I am in the process of finding a lawyer that does revocable trusts for NFA guns. Thank you!

Not affiliated but Bob has done work for me in the past. A great guy to deal with, very knowledgeable and he is affordable.

Bob J. Howell
8551 West Sunrise Blvd. #207
Plantation FL 33322
954-424-8889
954-423-1599 Fax

Scott