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Discussion Starter #1
So here's a question for this knowledgable group; full-autos are illegal in IL except for law enforcement agencies and FFLs selling to those agencies. I believe the FFL needs a demo letter from an agency to stock the full-auto into his inventory? So my question is, how was it that there was a full-auto AK-47 being fired at the Buffalo Range plinking pit when I was there this past fall?

I don't want to cast stereotypes, but my buddy is a LEO and the guy firing that gun was definitely not. Neither of us could think of any agencies that would request a test of such a weapon as it's bad press for the good guys to carry the eastern block hardware. So I guess my question is, aside from some crazy demo letter and the guy being an FFL, is there any legal way for that gun to have been fired there?

And before the accusations start, we're not looking to get anyone in trouble - we liked the range and want it to continue to be around, and have no idea who/where the guy is. I moved here from PA where a range was closed down by the ATF for funny business like that going on there. I'm just curious if there's a loophole I can use too! :)
 

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read me.

So here's a question for this knowledgable group; full-autos are illegal in IL except for law enforcement agencies and FFLs selling to those agencies. I believe the FFL needs a demo letter from an agency to stock the full-auto into his inventory? So my question is, how was it that there was a full-auto AK-47 being fired at the Buffalo Range plinking pit when I was there this past fall?

I don't want to cast stereotypes, but my buddy is a LEO and the guy firing that gun was definitely not. Neither of us could think of any agencies that would request a test of such a weapon as it's bad press for the good guys to carry the eastern block hardware. So I guess my question is, aside from some crazy demo letter and the guy being an FFL, is there any legal way for that gun to have been fired there?

And before the accusations start, we're not looking to get anyone in trouble - we liked the range and want it to continue to be around, and have no idea who/where the guy is. I moved here from PA where a range was closed down by the ATF for funny business like that going on there. I'm just curious if there's a loophole I can use too! :)
Let me start by stating this fact, THE OWNERS OF BUFFALO ROCK WOULD NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO ILLEGALLY FIRE A FULL AUTO WEAPON AT THERE RANGE.

Buffallo Rock is a great range, I have been there too many times to count. My personal expierence has shown me that the only people firing full auto weapons at that range fell into the following class.

1. Are clearly labeled LEO or a equivalant agency, I have seen federal and state agency members with there departments out there in street clothes. The funniest part was that they where wearing jeans and hoodies.

2. I have personally been invited and shot with class 3 manufacturers on a couple of there demo days. Both times i have been out there where on slow days in the middle of the week with LEO friends. The class 3 manufactures where 2 different big name guys from Illinois who build select fire weapons for police/goverment agencies and foriegn export. They brought a range of guns out there from ak's to pistols to belt feeds.

3. Or a dealer with post samples.

I hope what you witnessed was one of the above listed or a individual with a great ability to bump fire or a trigger actuator, both which are legal in the state of illinois. Let me say that i greatly respect the family that operates this range and have seen them remove several people who acted reckless. They have alot to lose along with the legal gun owners of our state. Hopefully this brings a little clarity to the issue in which you questioned.

Shawn:800:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I'm glad to hear the range owners are careful. I do not know what the situation was, but it was definitely not #1, nor was it #2 as it was a lone guy, not a demo situation (this was a Saturday at around 5pm and everyone else gave him a wide berth as he was just emptying 30 rounders from the hip). I guess I was mainly asking was item #3 legal in IL, which I assumed it was but I am still not sure how a dealer got a letterhead request for an AK demo out of a civilian agency. I guess I'm unclear on how that actually works. However it got there, it was definitely full-auto and not a trigger bump or actuator.

Thanks for the clarification and information!
 

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I'm glad to hear the range owners are careful. I do not know what the situation was, but it was definitely not #1, nor was it #2 as it was a lone guy, not a demo situation (this was a Saturday at around 5pm and everyone else gave him a wide berth as he was just emptying 30 rounders from the hip). I guess I was mainly asking was item #3 legal in IL, which I assumed it was but I am still not sure how a dealer got a letterhead request for an AK demo out of a civilian agency. I guess I'm unclear on how that actually works. However it got there, it was definitely full-auto and not a trigger bump or actuator.

Thanks for the clarification and information!
How do you know he wasn't bump firing? Firing from the hip is one of the big indicators of bump firing. But assuming he was not, I would be shocked if a range allowed someone to shoot an illegal full-auto without checking for paperwork. My guess is that could get them shut down in an instant. And I've never been to any ranges around you, but none around me would allow bump firing at all. That would be the fastest way to get your range membership revoked. So it probably was not bump firing, but legal full-auto.

But I will say this about the LEO letters - I know two class 3 mfgs personally in the Dallas area. They have all kinds of stuff for their personal use, I mean, for dept demos, like G36s, brand new MP5Ks, etc. They have both told me that LEO letters don't necessarily mean that the department is going to ever even going look at the weapon. They're all done with kind of a wink and a nod. They get to be friends with local LE (mainly when new neighbors call the cops about "somebody is firing machine guns out here") who all come out to their property to join in the fun.
 

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ArmorerR. I went to Buffalo on Saturday and seen the guy with a ak47 doing the same thing you seen. He was shooting 30 rounders from the hip. He was bump firing, no actuator. Heck the range officer told he how he was doing it and that you can do it to most guns. We had a small HK shoot that was fun except for having to keep an eye on that guy.
 

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Wow.. that is very fascinating. I have never seen either of that at Buffalo Range.

-Huntersdad
 

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Discussion Starter #7
ArmorerR. I went to Buffalo on Saturday and seen the guy with a ak47 doing the same thing you seen. He was shooting 30 rounders from the hip. He was bump firing, no actuator. Heck the range officer told he how he was doing it and that you can do it to most guns. We had a small HK shoot that was fun except for having to keep an eye on that guy.
I'll take your word for it; we gave him a wide berth so I could be mistaken but it didn't look like any of the bump-firing YouTube videos I've watched (which admittedly is only a few). Apparently he has his technique down better than they do - I don't know if that's good or bad.

I am kinda irritated though - bump-firing is ok (plinking pit or not, it seems idiotic) but I got "talked to" when I was using the MARKED 10 yard line at the EMPTY pistol range to get a new shooter started with a handgun. "Oh, those markings aren't for you" "Well, then a sign saying that would be nice" Sheesh, you spray painted them all, I figured if it was marked that clearly, it was ok. Apparently not.

Anyway, sorry I missed the shoot, but I was working. :(
 

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ArmorerR. The guy was very good at it. I talked to him and he stated that he does it all the time. He dumped 15-20 mags while we were there. If you ever want to get together with us you might be able to twist my arm.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
ArmorerR. The guy was very good at it. I talked to him and he stated that he does it all the time. He dumped 15-20 mags while we were there. If you ever want to get together with us you might be able to twist my arm.
I'm definitely interested in an HK meet, just need to plan around work.

This is really short notice, but I might be heading out tomorrow for a couple hours if the weather is nice like its supposed to be.
 

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I am outta town both weekends. Have a good time!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Kane County up in St. Charles. It opens at 0730. Let me know if you go and I'll try to meet up with you.
Is it both days? I couldn't find much on Google, but I've only got Sunday available this weekend and I really want to try and get out and shoot. I'm up to 4 new acquisitions that haven't been fired yet!
 

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The nicer one. Need to see if GRISTLE can go......... And huntersdad, whats more important than hanging out with fellow HKPRO members?
 
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