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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've had a FMP G3 kit, with green furniture and a barrel, lying around waiting to be built for probably 3 years or so. I've finally decided to start working on it. I've built FALs in the past so I understand the basic concepts and the 922 parts count issues. I am not a welder which is what held me up back in the day, but I've got a buddy that is very skilled and is more than capable of doing the welding. I've watched the AGI video on g3 building and looked over everything I can find online, but I wanted some input.

First off, US Parts...
I've got a PTR-91 receiver on the way from Vector so that's 1 part. I need 6 more, right?

I've been looking and these are some of the parts I've considered.

Top Notch green pistol grip ($15) - will it match my green furniture?
PTR91(JLD) trigger housing ($65)
Investment Grade Firearms Flash Hider ($35)
Black Market Parts HK23E cocking lever ($25) - ordered this already

That makes 4 parts, but I need to find 2 more. I'd also consider parts other than those above. I've looked for trigger, hammer, & sear but not found anything available right now.

Please give me some suggestions of parts I should consider. I don't know a lot of sources for parts so if you make a suggestion and have a source please mention it.

Also, I'm planning to send the finished rifle out for refinishing, so if you've got any suggestions on a refinisher feel free to throw that out too.

Thanks!

Bryan
 

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Remember, 922(r) doesn't care how many U.S. parts have, it regulates how many IMPORTED parts you CAN have. While what I just said may sound like the same thing to some, just look at it from the imported parts perspective, not the U.S. parts perspective.

From the 922(r) list, get as many imported parts as you can till you hit ten. Then get the remaining parts you need to complete the build in U.S. parts. If you come across something U.S. made that you can't find, get it in an imported part and replace one of the imported parts with a U.S. made parts that you know you can find.

For refinnishing, Arizona Response Systems seems to be very popular although I have no personal experence with them but I hear nothing but good things.

For genuine HK parts, try Adam at HKPARTS.net

Hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I get that 922 dictates that only 10 imported parts can be used in a build, but if I understand correctly the G3 has 17 "parts" and thus, I will need to use at least 7 US made parts to be using only 10 (or less) imported parts.

I've basically got all of the parts as imported parts (except my US made receiver) so I'm gonna have to lose 6 parts from my kit and replace them with US made parts..... or at least I think this is the case...


I've noticed people talking about using HTS made by JLD but I haven't found a source that is currently selling them. Are they no longer available or just between production runs and more will be around soon?
 

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Cool!... was just making sure you had all the ducks in a row... so many people don't and get themselves in a pickle.

I'm not an expert on G3 U.S. parts, more of a imported parts guy. But definitely keep us updated and post some pics!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Okay, so for the past few days I had looked at ptr91.com and not seen a US hammer or sear for sale but today they've got them back up.

I ordered a US hammer, sear, trigger housing, and black pistol grip. I also ordered a semi-auto elbow spring because I thought I might need it and didn't want to order it later or bend springs to get them to work - maybe I don't need it, but we shall see :)

I'm going to order a US muzzle device from IGF today.

That will make my US parts list
1. JLD receiver from Vector Arms
2. PTR91 Hammer
3. PTR91 Sear
4. PTR91 Trigger Housing
5. PTR91 Pistol Grip
6. Black Market Parts HK23E Cocking Lever (Operating Rod)
7. IGF Flash Hider

I'll probably paint the handguard and buttstock to match the pistol grip for now. I'd like to eventually add a wide handguard and black butt stock but I don't want to add the bipod. I'd like to wait on this to let my bank account recover from all these recent purchases.

Since I've got everything that I'll need (as far as I know) to complete a build, is there any harm in waiting to add wide handguards later? I noticed that Arizona Response Systems has some part that he fabricated to hang the handguards from the cocking tube (in that build he was using a non-tapered cocking tube and I don't know what that means at the moment)

I'll try to document the build with photos and a write up so everyone can check out my progress.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
oh, and one other question - I'm looking at "paddle magazine releases" and curious about them. I'll have to do some searching, but it looks like I might need to do some things to the receiver during the build to make one work.

Is it one of those "essential mods" to make the rifle more ergonomic?

Is it necessary to plan for it during the initial build or is it easy enough to fit one later if I decide I want one?
 

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I keep seeing reports on different websites that the 922r requirement is only to cover import regs, but once its here you can do whatever you want with it.

I'd sure like to see more evidence of this. I'd rather just leave my UMP with the longer barrel for a while before I sbr it and not replace a bunch of the perfectly functioning original parts with duplicate US made parts.
 

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oh, and one other question - I'm looking at "paddle magazine releases" and curious about them. I'll have to do some searching, but it looks like I might need to do some things to the receiver during the build to make one work.

Is it one of those "essential mods" to make the rifle more ergonomic?

Is it necessary to plan for it during the initial build or is it easy enough to fit one later if I decide I want one?
Well, there are some sorta cheesy "tac-latch" parts that kinda convert it to a paddle release. It changes the direction the latch must be pushed from longitudinally to laterally, but you don't have to modify the receiver at all.

But you can put a real paddle release on it too - you drill a small 1/8" hole (must be way too small to fit a trigger pack push pin) through one side of the shelf, and only half way through the other side. Again, if you go all the way through, you've created an illegal machine gun even though the hole is way too small. But anyways, you insert a 1/8" pin, a bushing, and the rest of the paddle mag parts and then weld the pin into place and grind the semi-auto shelf back down to smooth. Then refinish (i.e. paint) the repair area.

And no offense to anyone that has and likes a tac-latch. If you have one and like it, great. If they looked and functioned identical to an original one, I'd be all over them. But they don't, so I'm not.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the info on the paddle mag. I'll probably end up doing that mod before I get the build finished.

As far as the 922 thing, I'm not a lawyer or expert on the topic, but I'm very certain that it works like this - I am building a domestically built rifle which is okay. I'm using 10 (or less) imported parts on the rifle, which is okay. I'll always need to use 10 or less imported parts (by always having 7 or more US made parts) for the rifle to remain legal. It doesn't have to do with importing a weapon in my case, since I'm not actually importing a weapon, just pieces. It has to do with the domestic building of a rifle using some foreign parts. There may be much more to it than that, but I'm pretty sure that is the part that is applicable to my situation.
 

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Let me say this to you before you have your "Welder" friend help you with your G3 build.
Although I am sure your friend is a competent craftsmen, the welding which
is done on a firearm like an HK is best done by a person who has experience
with at least one and preferably more successfully completed HK jobs. The reason I say this is that although all you may be doing is the cocking tube and trunnion into the receiver, both of these operations can be fouled up by
misalignment, warpage, and failure to make proper penetration into the trunnion on rossette welds and rear trunnion to rail meeting point. because the trunnion acts as a heat sink, you can seriously damage your sheet metal
or end up with a nasty cover job to fix a burned out area. The cocking tube is the same, tack tack tack, and use the appropriate ampereage. I have seen
"weld jobs" done that were really terrible by guys that were supposed to know
how to weld etc. As with any craft there are many specialties. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I think he's aware of his skills enough and honest enough to tell me if this is beyond him. I've seen him do other projects that seem to have some similar characteristics. I intend to show him the photos Gunplumber has got up on ARS for his JLD receiver build as well as the AGI build video so that we knows exactly what we need to do.

If he thinks its outside of his skill level then I can send it out to be fabbed up.

I'd like to hear any input anyone has if there is more I can do to help prepare him. Any advice on resources or what to do/avoid doing while making these welds?
 

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922(r) used to only apply to "importing" a rifle, but it was later amended to "fix" the so-called loophole, and make it so that a rifle that has not been deemed importable under the sporting-act BS can only have 10 non-US made parts in order to be compliant.




ALmost 100% that nobody but hardcore ATF guys would even care about that rule, but its one of those things that could really screw you over IF it gets caught.


Since the OP has found enough US made parts to be compliant, then thats the way he should go! ;)
 

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922(r) used to only apply to "importing" a rifle, but it was later amended to "fix" the so-called loophole, and make it so that a rifle that has not been deemed importable under the sporting-act BS can only have 10 non-US made parts in order to be compliant.




ALmost 100% that nobody but hardcore ATF guys would even care about that rule, but its one of those things that could really screw you over IF it gets caught.


Since the OP has found enough US made parts to be compliant, then thats the way he should go! ;)
So... if I buy a bunch of US made parts and just keep them in my range box, think they'd apply their "constructive intent" rules like they do for other parts and just say it's ok? ;)
 

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Have your buddy the welder practice on a scrap piece of sheet metal from the parts kit. This will help him gauge how much amperage that is needed or not needed.

Its not exactly the same steel but it is similar. I have done a few builds and you can burn holes in the sheet metal very easily. Once you get the amperage right you will be good to go.

If he knows what he is doing it should not be a problem. There are a few builds out there on the net with pics and they will tell you where to drill the plug welds for the trunnion.

Lots of luck!
 

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So... if I buy a bunch of US made parts and just keep them in my range box, think they'd apply their "constructive intent" rules like they do for other parts and just say it's ok? ;)
Probably ;)


I dont think most LEO's care enough (or know enough) about 922r compliance to question the gun or not anyways.


I was reading on ARFcom about a guy with a Benelli M4s90 with the skeletonized stock and the +2 extention (in reality, a clear 922r violation), and there were a couple police officers there saying how cool it was.

If you were unlucky and got an ATF arse inspection and they found out you had 11 Export parts, but you had US made parts in your range bag enough be 922r compliant, im SURE most of them would tell you to go home and change it out... that would be like arresting someone for going 5 MPH over the speed limit.

Now if your unlicky enough to have an ATF agent with a corn cob up his naughty place come along and want to piss on your day, you might get screwed if he found out you had 11 export parts on your gun even if you had 10 extra US made of the same part sittin in your range bag.

Its one of those things that MOST people dont know or care about, but that one guy can do a lot of damage with...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I think the most realistic scenario that one would encounter would be to have their gun confiscated by the police somehow, maybe shooting a home invader, getting picked up for DUI while it was in the trunk, etc. Then the LEO thinks the rifle is some illegal machine gun because it's got a black stock and an investigation is started and the ATF finds that you've got too many imported parts...

Regardless, I am familiar enough with 922 to know how I want to build my rifle. My build will have 10 or less imported parts regardless of what I might be able to get away with. At this point I've got 7 US parts in the mail (hammer, sear, pistol grip, receiver, op rod/charging handle, trigger housing, muzzle device) so all is well with the 922 issue.

scenarioL113, Thanks for the suggestion of using the scrap receiver as a testbed. I never thought about that but that's exactly the sort of thing that would be helpful. I already know from the photos and video I've got, where all the welds should go. At this point I think I've got a welder that has the experience and tools to to the job, it would just be nice to get him some experience on these materials so he knows what settings and such to use. That receiver stub should be just what we need :)
 

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Did you call PTR or just order off their site? They didn't have a trigger listed on their web site when I needed one but I called them on the phone and they said they had them and sent one right out. At that time they were JLD things might be different now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I just ordered off their site. When I looked first I didn't see any trigger group parts except the housing. When I looked again 2 days later I saw the hammer and sear added. I didn't need any other US parts so I didn't pursue trying to get a US trigger, but I've heard that they don't make them due to the high production cost of that part. I never called to ask.
 

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I keep seeing reports on different websites that the 922r requirement is only to cover import regs, but once its here you can do whatever you want with it.

I'd sure like to see more evidence of this. I'd rather just leave my UMP with the longer barrel for a while before I sbr it and not replace a bunch of the perfectly functioning original parts with duplicate US made parts.
That's not correct. 922(r) also applies to mfg of ANY firearm that would otherwise be banned from import as not being considered the "sporting" type. In other words, building an assault-rifle, sub-maching gun, military/LE style no-no gun/clone?... parts count applies.

"Section 922(r) of the Gun Control Act (GCA) prohibits assembly of
certain semiautomatic rifles and shotguns from imported parts. The
implementing regulations in section 178.39 of Title 27, Code of
Federal Regulations provide that no person shall assemble a
semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the
following imported parts if the assembled firearm is prohibited
from importation under section 925(d)(3) of the GCA as not being
particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting
purposes:"
 
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