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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I'm planning to get a P2K soon for carry but I'm worried about my little girl- she is 2 1/2 and I don't want her to see me carry, say "what's that" I tell her it's a gun- and then when we are out somewhere she talks about it!!! I can't just brush her off and tell her it is nothing- esp. in a few years.

My wife isn't fond of the idea of my carrying and really doesn't want anyone to know... In some ways I too would rather people not know (I work with teenagers)

Any ideas?

(sorry I know this isn't really HK related but since packing.org is gone I don't know of a CCW forum.)
 

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Good question!

I don't have children, so my advice would not be warrented.

Just be natural and keep the weapon away from the little person's hands till they are older. I know you would do what ever it takes to make sure of that.

I was reading on one of the fourm's here onetime that someone knew when it was time to take their grand children out shooting. That was when they could squeese cock the safty release on a P7 series of weapon, with one hand. That sounded fairly sane to me.

Good luck and I am sure you will get several answers of sound advice here. TJ
 

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i too work with teens and many other ages, also work in finances for a living. i also have children. my 2 1/2 year old talks quite a bit. i've never hidden guns from her but i also don't handle them much if ever in front of the kids (less is better imo). when they have seen them they are shiny new things and want to handle them. i usually refer to them as "daddys toys" and no-no's (i don't use the g word, i don't want that coming up in public either). i don't like calling them toys but my 2yr old doesn't get anything else yet. a 2 year does not understand what a gun is. but they do understand that something is not his/hers and cannot and should not be played with. eventually i will teach her to see a gun and leave it alone and get me, but that's too soon developmentally for them at 2, IMO. now it's no problem but i never, NEVER leave them lying around or loaded. i keep a mag in the gun but not in the chamber. i figure there's no way she can rack the slide but i can in a crisis situation. i also keep the safety on at all times. she actually loves to help me arrange the bullets in my organizers. i also have safes for my pistols and rifles and store them there, out of reach. safety is my number 1 concern. even though i have degrees in counseling and other related fields but peoples opinions always differ.

as far as others, pick your audience. don't be ashamed of the second ammendment but don't shout it from the rooftops either. don't say or do anything that could come back to haunt you if defend yourself. those that do know i own guns. (once u tell 1 teen they all will know, most will like it, parents mostly don't care and i live in NY, especially when i tell them the stories below). only a handful of adults know and i try to never tell teens what i own. don't show them or let them handle them unless the parents are present (stories always grow). i never say or allow idle talk about violence, shooting myself and others. gun ownership is responsibility so be careful at all times what you say. violence jokes are no longer an option, IMO. saying i'm gonna kill him, or i could just hurt him. that made me so angry... these statements can really come back to bite you.

my wife is very supportive and is actually getting her permit this week, even though she was skeptical 3 years ago. i've had a some people threaten to kill me and some other bad experiences for her and me that took me from thinking guns were great for cops and soldiers to believing everyone ought to have one in his/her home. be patient explain you are concerned for her and the kids safety. w/ police response times serious harm could come to you and the kids. you're not a whacko and safety is number one to you. talk to her and listen to her concerns and come up with plan to keep the guns and defense of the home etc...

one of my best selling points is that i carry a HK. it's IMO the top gun in reliability and safety features. you can drop it with the safety on and it won't go off (from the test and accidental personal experience). decocker, external hammer, external safety, detent plate, etc....
Good luck
 

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Personally I would show it to her and talk about it. If she is old enough to be interested, she is old enough to have an accident with it so she is also old enough to have an important talk about it.
When she askes, tell here the truth in simple terms. This is a gun. This is NOT a toy. This can hurt people. I carry it so that I can protect myself if I was ever to have to stop a bad guy. This is not for you to play with. You should not touch it. If you see a gun you should:
Stop
don't touch
get away
tell an adult.

From the California Gun Safty Certificate Study Guide
http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66545

Talking to Children about Guns
Children are naturally curious about things they don’t know about or think are
“forbidden.” When a child asks questions or begins to act out “gun play,” you
may want to address his or her curiosity by answering the questions as honestly
and openly as possible. This will remove the mystery and reduce the natural
curiosity. Also, it is important to remember to talk to children in a manner they
can relate to and understand. This is very important, especially when teaching
children about the difference between “real” and “make-believe.” Let children
know that, even though they may look the same, real guns are very different
than toy guns. A real gun will hurt or kill someone who is shot.

Instill a Mind Set of Safety and Responsibility
The American Academy of Pediatrics reports that adolescence is a highly
vulnerable stage in life for teenagers struggling to develop traits of identity,
independence and autonomy. Children, of course, are both naturally curious
and innocently unaware of many dangers around them. Thus, adolescents as
well as children may not be sufficiently safeguarded by cautionary words,
however frequent. Contrary actions can completely undermine good advice.
A “Do as I say and not as I do” approach to gun safety is both irresponsible
and dangerous.
Remember that actions speak louder than words. Children learn most by
observing the adults around them. By practicing safe conduct you will also
be teaching safe conduct.
RULES FOR KIDS
Adults should be aware that a child could discover a gun when a parent or
another adult is not present. This could happen in the child’s own home; the
home of a neighbor, friend or relative; or in a public place such as a school or
park. If this should happen, a child should know the following rules and be
taught to practice them.
1. Stop
The first rule for a child to follow if he/she finds or sees a gun is to stop
what he/she is doing.
2. Don’t Touch!
The second rule is for a child not to touch a gun he/she finds or sees. A child
may think the best thing to do if he/she finds a gun is to pick it up and take it to an adult. A child needs to know he/she should NEVER touch a gun he/she may find or see.
3. Leave the Area
The third rule is to immediately leave the area. This would include never taking a gun away from another child or trying to stop someone from using gun.
4. Tell an Adult
The last rule is for a child to tell an adult about the gun he/she has seen. This
includes times when other kids are playing with or shooting a gun.
Please note that, while there is no better advice at this time for children or
adolescents who encounter a gun by happenstance, the California Chapter of the American College of Emergency Physicians reports that such warnings alone may be insufficient accident prevention measures with children and adolescents.

hope that helps
Arthur
 

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I agree with the post above.

If you dont hide it from them they lose interest in it and its not a big deal.I have found if you hide it from them thats when it gets to be an issue.I have a 4 and 6 year old,both girls.I bought my oldest daughter a "crikett" rifle with stainless and a pink laminated stock.She is proud of it but she doesnt ever talk about it until I open my gunroom.And if she sees a gun she just walks around it.I have a 1919, a 21,and a 50 bolt gun in the floor of my gunroom and they both pay not one bit of attention to any of them.They have both shot the 22 and the oldest even my MP5 with a silencer attached in full auto!! I show them what it does and why we dont touch without me there and all the safety stuff as usual.Its a non issue to them.
A funny story.My mother was taking my daughters and my nephew someplace and my nephew told some joke about a monkey and a gun because it was brown or something.My Daughter says "Huh uh,cause 'chine guns are black!" My mother laughed pretty hard.I am a dealer,so people already know I am into guns.I think thats pretty much like a security decal on the window or something.
Good luck with your situation.
 

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I agree 100% with the concept of taking the curiosity factor away from children by not hiding the fact that you have guns.

However... A 2 year old child does not know anything about discretion... It is quite likely your child will say something at the wrong time. But I wouldn't worry about it too much.

BTW, one of the main reason I chose a P7 as a personal carry piece is because of it's inherent safety. I can remove the entire firing pin assebly without any tools in just a few seconds.
 

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Do not underestimate your child. My youngest daughter was quite interested in guns and rightfully so. Her only dislike is that they are too loud otherwise, under strict supervision she was and is allowed to hold and handle firearms, is told what they can and cannot do and instructed that if she ever sees one that neither I or my wife have allowed her to see, she is to NOT touch it and go away from it to retreive an adult. Educate your kids about guns now. She has never spoken out of turn about firearms. My teenage daughter shoots all the time and has fired guns boys at her school only dream about. She has no has NO illconceived notions about guns and when able wants her concealed carry license.They may show only a passing interest but they will know the truth. The worst thing people do with guns and kids is to hide them, not teach them about them and let them learn about them from the absolute worst possible way they ever could--Hollywood, TV and video games. Do that and you are just asking for an accident or misuse. You must remove the stigma that guns are bad and only bad people have them. Instill knowledge and that fact that you can and must defend yourself and political correctness is your enemy.
 

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Lots of great advice! I dont have children in the home. I grew up on a farm in Montana, guns were a part of every day life. Children were taught at the earliest possible age to shoot a firearm safely, under adult supervision of course.

The tradition in our family, if you can call it that, was under no circumstances were toy guns ever bought as gifts, nor were they tolerated on premises. We were never allowed in our play to even point a finger and say bang bang! More than one child got a stern scolding and spanking for such behavior, simply because real firearms were usually very close by at most times, and that kind of mind set was not allowed to be carried over when carrying or being around a real firearm, no matter how young a user may be. Firearms were always respected and used properly.

Best policy I think is training/education and gun/hunter safety classes as early as possible!
 

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Lots of good sound advice posted above. I have shown my kids my guns and they watch me clean them, go to matches and hunting etc. They understand they are not toys and have handled them under my supervision. I agree with telling as few people as possible that I carry or own guns. The more that know I have them the more that may want to take them from me. However I have been able to carry concealed as long as my kids have been alive and they have never known that I have a gun on me at all times. I am very discriminate about how I carry and figure that if my own children do not know I have a sidearm on me all the time, than I am sure John Q Public has no idea either.
 

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I totally agree with USMCMP5A3. I have had CCW in Detroit for business reasons since I was 18 and I am 53 now. The men in my family hunt and fish in Northern Michigan and we were taught gun safety principles. You bring a loaded shotgun or rifle into the cabin after a hunt...well...let's just say , "God help you". My attitude has always been "concealed carry" is exactly that. Your situational awareness is what really protects you and your family, the weapon is just a tool. No one knew when I was carrying. Not even my wife and certainly not my youngsters. Do not confuse teaching your kids gun safety with your particular concealed carry needs. They both are important and should be considered realistically and separately.
 

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RE

Before I go into my next bit which you can read if you wish, or not if you don't, let me say, When I was 5 I started going to my Dad's (he and my mom were divorced), he had guns, she didn't. From very early in life he and my other brothers taught me what they were, what they were for, the do's don'ts and the 2 main rules: Never point a gun (loaded or unloaded) at anyone or anything unless you intend to use it. Always keep it on safe until ready to use it. And I wasn't allowed to ever have acces to the gun when no one was present, though at the time it was kept behind the door...unloaded of course.
Obviously everyone has different views on the important stuff, but from that early age, I learned to shoot a 22 pump browning, and a colt 22 peacemaker. When I went home, I knew about these things, they weren't "secret" and there was no need for me to share with my mom....who would have been ok with it anyway. As I grew, I got on to bigger things, and the first double barrel I shot at about 10 or so, I didn't hold properly and it kicked it's way out of my arms and onto the ground. Another lesson learned. All this has stayed with me, along with the responsibilities and even "respect" of such things that one must have as it all fits together.
From my own experience feel that "secrecy" is unhealthy... Obviously there are certain stages for certain ages... and at one time, (don't know if they still do), they taught in school hunter safety education course and now days if you've not had the class you aren't supposed to be allowed to buy ammo, but I don't think it's enforced.
Either way, I wish you all luck with this one, especially with society as it is... but I do agree that you shouldn't have to be "afraid" to teach your children... and if I had children of my own I would feel it was my responsibility to ensure they knew and learned.
Many tragic accidents I've heard about, known of, and read about have come from people and/or children not being aware, or not being taught...

I personally can't recommend what to do with young children but my wife's kids (teens) hate guns and anything to do with them, one saw a surefire catalog with just pictures of the good ol mp5's and m16's and was very bothered at 16 years of age. Needless to say I was told off for having the book but my answer was, I see nothing wrong with it, it's something I'm used to, and it's only a book... and it's mine. It was her choice to get into my stuff to look at it, but by no means am I going to get rid of it just because. Don't know what the rest of you think of this situation but I wasn't amused.... and if I'd made any mistakes it was coming over here to live with a ready made family set in their ways, especially since they weren't willing to respect my beliefs, opinions and allow me to be me and accept me as is.
 

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I kind of agree with Sbryant. I too was introduced to firearms at a very young age, probably around 5 years old. I started shooting an old bolt action .22 rifle that my dad's dad gave him when he was young. Moved onto a Ruger 10/22 and .22 pistols. My uncle has been into collecting firearms for as long as I've been alive, and he has always had ALOT of firarms (I can probably thank him for my sickness/firearms collecting). My brother (younger), Dad, and uncle spent many hours together, needless to say, I was exposed to a wide variety of firearms as a kid. My brother and I were around WAY more firearms than any of our friends. We too were taught the absolutely necessary rules of firearms. like Sbryant said, never point a firearm at something you are not willing to KILL, and always keep the weapon in a safe condition until you are ready to aim and KILL what you aim at, always treat all firearms as if they are loaded (I could go on and on). Whatever you do, MAKE SURE you have a secure place to store your handgun when it is not on your hip.

Anyway, I don't think there is any reason for concealed carry to be a big secret. I carry a handgun everywhere I go, my wife knows, and she knows what to do when I tell her to grab the kids and get away from me. My kids know I carry a handgun, although they are still a bit young to really understand it. For me it is easy, but it is part of my job to carry a handgun, and I tend to see things pretty black and white.

Ultimately, this is a decision you have to make, I don't know your situation, the community you live in (political climate), or what your family thinks about firearms. I just don't think carrying a handgun is something you should keep secret from your family, it may be very important for them to know.
 

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It is not a big secret, it is to prevent the, "from the mouth of babes" situation. Such as waiting in line at the supermarket and then have your 4 year old lift your shirt up and show twenty people in line your sidearm and say "see my daddy has a gun"!!!!!
Once the kids are old enough it is not as big deal to let them know. However I do feel it is better left unsaid. The only concern is the concealed carry and letting young kids know you have it. They would never tell someone to cause harm or embarrassment. They may however say something when you may need it most. During a self-protection scenario when you want the element of surprise. But it could be lost when little Suzie says, “stay away my daddy has a gun”. I am not looking to get into a gunfight or for a situation to occur where as I may need to defend myself. But I try to prepare for any and all situations I may be faced with.


I do not argue that our children need to be exposed to this wonderful sport. I do not believe they should be denied the opportunity to shoot my guns. I do not believe that our children do not need to hunt. My opinion is quite the opposite. We need to expose our children to the positive side of gun ownership. I feel bad forthe man who is shunned for even having a Surefire catalog lying about. I feel bad that children are suspended from school for drawings. But let us keep in mind that not so long ago many hunters would bring their shotguns to school and put them in their lockers so they could hunt for a few hours before nightfall. This is tragic. The stats came out that there are hundreds of thousands less over the past few years that have kept up their hunting license. If we do not enlighten future generations of the need and the right to own firearms we will all loose out. You may never see the day you can give your HK collection to your grandson or grand daughter. Not only because they may not be interested in it but they may be illegal to own.
 

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I have 4 girls age 9 months to 14 and I ALWAYS carry, they have never said a word in public about it. Educate them,Educate them,Educate them, guns have always been a part of my life my dad had so many when we were kids we had them under our beds unloaded of course, we did not dare touch them with out him and shot them all the time when my dad had the time to take us. I keep mine locked and unloade except for the USPC .45 that i carry religiously. My kids watch Eddie Eagle and have been regularly quizzed on what to do around guns. The carry gun has become as normal as my wifes purse and no mention is made of it.
 

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I totally agree with USMCMP5A3. I have had CCW in Detroit for business reasons since I was 18 and I am 53 now. The men in my family hunt and fish in Northern Michigan and we were taught gun safety principles. You bring a loaded shotgun or rifle into the cabin after a hunt...well...let's just say , "God help you". My attitude has always been "concealed carry" is exactly that. Your situational awareness is what really protects you and your family, the weapon is just a tool. No one knew when I was carrying. Not even my wife and certainly not my youngsters. Do not confuse teaching your kids gun safety with your particular concealed carry needs. They both are important and should be considered realistically and separately.
Exactly - do not confuse teaching gun safety with the "concealed" aspect of carry. Concealed means concealed. I go out with the family often while armed. I am just careful not to hug the kids, bend over to pick things up etc. that might reveal the pistol. It is not that I lie to my wife and kids about the guns - my kid repeats the mantra "guns are not toys" constantly - it's just that the only person who knows that you are carrying should be you.

Also, I am a big fan of the idea that a .25 in your pocket is better than a .45 in the safe. Carry something appropriate for the season/clothing etc but the important thing is to carry. If you carry a gun, carry extra ammo, a small light (Surefire Executive rocks) and a knife.
 

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Unfortunatly I don't quite see it this way.

If you show a child somthing, then tell them they can never touch it without you, the first thing alot of them will do, is go find it and touch it.

It's human nature, "don't push that button" ok, then they push it.

When somone tells you NOT to do somthing, you want to know why, and 2 year olds don't quite understand what's wrong with anything. It really depends on the child but the vast majority of them do not listen, as much as their parents love to believe they have the perfect children (no offense) they are not.


With that said I was brought up around guns, I've been shooting since I was 5, and I speak from experience when my father said "do not touch these without me here" I didn't listen to a word he said, But I also handled them in a safe manner.
 

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how many toys do your kids have laying around that they dont play with after the first day?Same deal,not that guns are toys, but the novelty wears off after its been seen and handled.Then its no big deal.
 

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I agree with everyone, I also agree with Reoze, I have 2, boy and a girl as usual the boy grew up hunting with me, he knows what firearms can and can't do, he has been shooting and learning as he grew up, it was the male thing to do. For girls is natural to be curious and don't matter how many times I have taken them both out, my girl is definately more curious. She needed constant reminders about firearm safety and what firearms can do(not in a graphic way) although at age 5 now she shoots her borthers 22 and enjoys plinking and she finally knows what firearms are for. I definately will suggest that you remind her cconstantly about what you do, and for what, gun safety is never to early to teach it. If it was me I had every school teach firearm safety in first grade.

Nevertheless It took about 2-3 years for my daughter to stop and assimilate the information, she stoped telling me if I was carring a pistol or what it was for, again it was way different with my boy, he knew I carry and for what purpose, he and plays along. Again females and specially girls are more curious and that is their nature.

:330:
 

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I have a 2 1/2 year old little girl myself and she knows what Daddies gun is and that it is not a toy. Do not try to hide it from them that only sparks curiousity even in adults. My little girl has never said anything to anyone about me having it on me. Just be sure to have a serious talk and place emphasis on how important it is in words a 2 year old can understand.

Don't use words like kill they don't understand that. Instead use hurt or hurt bad they do understand that. keep it as simple as possible but don't try to hide it from them. But...do use a safe when you are not going to carry the pistol.
 
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