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Discussion Starter #1
So here's my ignorant question of the day. I'm getting a new P2000SK before the end of August and I am still trying to make a decision on the LEM vs. DA/SA modes. I have dry fired them both - they feel so different from each other with regard to the trigger pull. I still lean toward the DA/SA, but that first shot has a really heavy trigger pull and to the contrary, the LEM has a lighter, but much longer trigger pull with way more travel than I am used to. Yes, I know I could train myself to get used to either version, and I'm not getting it for a target gun anyway, so this next question will help me make my final decision:

In layman’s terms:
Does the DA/SA have a stronger hammer swing/hit than the LEM?

I ask because the HK Catalog states if you come up on a crappy round, you can simply pull the trigger again for a second strike instead of racking the slide and ejecting the cartridge. That selling point scares the hell out of me and here's why. I bought a pink Tuarus PT111 9mm for my wife a few years ago to help get her into shooting. It used almost the same exact verbiage as a selling point, that you could pull the trigger again on a round that doesn't go off the first time. I didn't pay much attention to that because in my 25+ years of shooting, I have almost never had a 'dud' round in any of my revolvers or pistols (and I have a lot, in many different makes and models), but when we took that gun to the range it failed to go bang when the trigger was pulled many, many times. Call me crazy, but in my train of thought, when the hammer hits the primer, the bullet should fly. I know Taurus isn't even remotely close to being comparable to HK in any way, but seeing that pull-the-trigger-again verbiage associated with the LEM version brings back some terrible memories...

I have never had this issue an any of my DA/SA, DA only or SA only guns.
 

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The LEM has a hammer hit just as strong as the DA/SA. LEM feels light because it uses an internal two piece hammer system that is partially "pre cocked", sort of like the partially cocked striker on a Glock.

Check this video, it explains it much better than anyone else I've seen.
LEM Description - YouTube
 

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In layman’s terms:
Does the DA/SA have a stronger hammer swing/hit than the LEM?
Quite the contrary I think the LEM hammer hits the pin harder. I can't explain it well, but I think the spring is a "heavier" spring (lb/force wise) than the DA/SA spring. I know if you pull the LEM trigger without first racking the slide or on a misfire then it is def without a doubt a heavier pull than the standard DA pull on the DA/SA HK's.
 

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Yep, LEM hammer spring is actually stronger than the DA/SA hammer spring. Do as Darebear said and try pulling a LEM trigger without racking the slide. It will be much harder to pull than the regular DA pull you find on the DA/SA variant. It's hard to explain without pictures, but when you pull the LEM trigger after cocking it and chambering a round you aren't actually feeling the resistance of the hammer spring. Instead, right at the end of the hammer's rearward travel it reconnects internally to the pre-cocked cam mechanism and comes down with all of the force that the heavier spring has behind it. I probably didn't even explain that right, but the point here is that while the trigger feels very light, the hammer is actually coming down with more force than on a regular DA/SA variant.

As for the "second strike capability," this has nothing to do with how reliable the weapon is in the first place. It just means that if the round doesn't go bang and you pull the trigger again the hammer will come back and release to give it a 2nd try. If it still doesn't go bang, your best bet is to eject the dud and chamber another round because chances are it's not going to go off on the 3rd try. Any true DA mechanism has 2nd strike capabilites. I believe Taurus uses an internal firing pin (striker) mechanism with a 2nd strike capability. It should work under the same principle as a traditional DA w/ a hammer, but you can't physically see the hammer moving back because it doesn't have one. Your bad experience with the dud round is due to either Taurus making a crappy gun (my guess) or an actual bad round. It has nothing to do with the 2nd strike feature itself.
 

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but when we took that gun to the range it failed to go bang when the trigger was pulled many, many times. Call me crazy, but in my train of thought, when the hammer hits the primer, the bullet should fly.
Here is my experience with my 3 SKs, a 9mm, 40 S & W running a 357 Sig barrel, and my EDC a 357 Sig. All of them I've converted to LEM V1 from V2. The 9mm is pushing 4,000 rounds, the two 357 Sig have 300 and 500 rounds through them. Not once have I ever had to pull the trigger a second time to get them to go bang. I don't know about others but if I ever have a round that doesn't go bang when the trigger is pulled, I'm tapping and racking as fast as I can. And I teach others to do the same. While the thought of pulling the trigger twice if you have a round with hard primer (S & B ammo I've been told) is acceptable to some, I'm not going to get in that habit as it can get you in trouble fast if the SHTF.
 

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With my sk V3, the DA pull lightened up a good bit with use (1500 rounds so far). Same as my P30 did (DA trigger seems very light now; 3000+ rounds so far). As far as 2nd strike capability, while that capability is not a negative, it has never been something I've considered/practiced to become part of my habit. I'd assume a "click" to be an ammo issue and want to clear the dud vs. dropping the hammer again on a round that has likely already misfired (i.e. based on my expereince with HKs, a "click" and not a "bang" is probably ammo and not the gun; probably). Enjoy the sk! It is a remarkable subkompact, that you will not be unhappy with.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks, guys. I appreciate all of the advice. I am getting it tomorrow and cannot wait to take it to the range. Regarding the second-strike capability - I completely agree. I would never do that either, I would rack the slide and hope for better results with the next round. That said, I was worried about the SK at first because that Taurus PT111 I bought for my wife was the first pistol I ever shot/owned that advertised a second strike capability and after experiencing so many failure-to-fires with it, I chalked their second strike capability benefit up to being an excuse for what was apparently a very light hammer strike (you know, if at first you don’t succeed…). This happened over and over with Winchester ‘white box’ 9mm which runs great in all my other 9mm's.

I only own one other Taurus, kind of a novelty gun I guess, but I do like it – the Taurus 410/45 Judge with the 3" cylinder and 3" barrel. I will never buy another gun from them though. Reliability is Everything - lesson learned.
 

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I have addressed this question previously and those here also got it right. It is heavier and the credit goes to HK designer Helmut Weldle who designed the LEM system and found a clever way to use a much stronger hammer spring (with stronger firing pin indent than a standard V7 DAO, SA or DA USP trigger) to give you a much lighter DAO-style trigger pull! He is retired from HK but he will be missed.
G3Kurz
 

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I just keep with what i know and know well. DA/SA i have about 30 yrs in from revolver's to semi.'s. But if i was younger and not so much in on TDA's i might buy one LEM or borrow one to try and see how i like shooting it. Todd Green's Press OUt make's my first DA pull a non-issue for me now. Good luck with what you decide on....
 
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