[Never_Better]

Hi HK Pro's .... here is my tale of woo. I am no stranger to HK. Had the complete line in the early 80's and shot 1,000's of rounds through 91, 93 and 94's without so much a one jam using PMC ammo. Now for present day. Decided to re-visit my youth and get back into shooting. So I purchased a very clean 93A .... bought 1,000 rds of PMC and headed to the range. Shot one 20 round clip and on the second mag, experienced a first for me .... a trigger pull with no result. I pulled the cocking lever back and much to my surprise found a bent up spent cartridge .... must have been a fluke. Put a new clip in ... fresh ammo. After several rounds .... same thing. A combination of jams, spent cartridges not clearing before the bolt slammed back etc. So I packed up the gun and sent it back to the seller. The seller had it checked out by a HK gunsmith and the gunsmith fired 100 rounds of mil spec ammo without a problem. I received a refund and went shopping for another 93. Found one last week ... a very clean 93 with low, low round count. Looked like new.

So I trotted off to the range with the same PMC ammo. It was deja vu all over .... almost to the identical round count. I checked the PMC ammo online ... 223A Bronze (suppose to be mil spec.)

Can anyone shed some light on this problem?? I cannot imagine it's the gun ....

BTW ... I have a 91 and it works flawlessly as do all my other HK pistols ... P9S 9, 45, P7M8, P7M13 and new HK 45 V1.

Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.

Rgds,

Never Better

 

[hkshooterusp]

My clone/surplus/aftermarket build eats PMC fine, even accurate with it. Maybe you got a bad lot.
Some more info may help. Have you cleaned this gun? How have you cleaned it? Do you leave oil in the barrel and chamber? Are you shooting or storing the gun in a dusty area? Have you modified the gun in any way? What mags are you using? The only common denominators are the operator and the ammo, one of the two is suspect. And ammunition, while not perfect, has a very tight quality control.

 

[Stef]

Never_better,
Can you try another ammos ?
Are you using the same magazine with both 93 ? If yes, check it, it can be damaged.
What kind of oil are you using to lubricate the bolt group ?
Using dry bolt group will produce troubles as well as lubricant cleaners which penetrate metal like WD40, it is recommanded to use medium weight oil like break free.

 

[LMKnucklehead]

You get what you pay for!

Buy better ammo!

 

[JFK52]

My sentiments exactly, change the ammo. I run the 55 grain .223 Federal in bulk boxes that I buy at the local Walmart and have not had any problems in my 93. It also likes Seller and Beloit ammo. You had a more than gracious seller the first go round to give you a full refund.

 

[JTinIN]

Questions, Trouble Shooting and Cleaning Steps:
- Was the first "93A" an actual German HK or a clone?
- Is the second "93" an actual German HK or a clone?
- Check you extractor spring for any movement with your finger?
- Like the others said try different ammo, Fed XM193 in the 20 round box (I won't use the bulk pack after friends had a few NFA guns go pop) is a good choice.
- Do a total field break down including the bolt group, clean and lube with CLP (aka Break Free), clean the chamber and locking lugs well with a brush and wipe the lube out, and try.
- At that point probably time to check bolt gap ... but on two HK in a row have to expect something else or a bad run of well used sear host guns.

Take Care

 

[Never_Better]

Thank you all for your input. I will go through more detail.

Both guns are Original HK 93A3 made in early 80's.
Both guns were throughly cleaned before I took them to the range.
I used different magazines each time.
I use break free as lubricant and cleaner with no residual messes.
The extractor spring is tight.
Both guns were in like new condition.
I have not tried another ammo .... but will this week and revert with the result. I will buy several makes and revert here with the result of each.

I wrote a letter to PMC .... and hope to hear something positive. If not, I will have nearly 900 rounds that will go in the trash.

Like I said earlier .... I used to have a 93 and at one time shot 1,000 rounds without clean and had a jam. The spent rounds used to fly 20 ft. My buddies always had me to the far right on the line so I would't hit them with my brass.

Check this link for several spent cartridges and some that were ejected just to check the chamber before firing another round.

Spent rounds

Thanks again for all your comments ....

Never Better

 

[hkshooterusp]

Don't trash the 900 rounds, you'll find plenty of folks who can use them.

 

[hkshooterusp]

By the looks of those rounds they aren't close to leaving the gun. Could be under powered ammo as long as the ejector and extractor does their jobs.

 

[JTinIN]

Thanks and now more questions ;-).

May we assume that you are using the semi trigger pack that came with both guns ... just on the off chance you are using your full auto sear pack.
Since you are using an A3 stock, is the carrier buffered or the stock?

Good luck.

 

[skullbox]

Try some good old Wolf Military Classic...

 

[Never_Better]

Hi to All,

An update to the jamming on my vintage 93. I wrote PMC and told them the story. They asked me to send them all unused ammo and any spend brass. They said they'd pay for shipping and refund what ever I spent on the ammo. Done. They acknowledged receipt and said they'd check it out an get back to me. In the meantime, I purchased 500 rounds of AR 223 American Eagle, went to the range ... used the same gun, magazines, etc and didn't have a single malfunction. Most of the brass was eject 15-20 feet forward right. Shot several 30 round clips towards the end rapid fire without any incident. The spent brass was clean and the gun it's self was cleaner. The PMC ammo left the gun extremely filthy.

I will update this post when PMC gets back to me.

Thank you all for your comments and advise.

Rgds,

Never Better

 

[57Strat]

I cannot even imagine that anyone could think that the issues you saw with both HK93 rifles was caused by anything other than the ammo. It is the ammo causing the problem. Buy some better ammo.

 

[ptalar]

I cannot even imagine that anyone could think that the issues you saw with both HK93 rifles was caused by anything other than the ammo. It is the ammo causing the problem. Buy some better ammo.

What brands of "better ammo" do you recommend? Wolf Classic? What grain?

 

[JTinIN]

Have had good luck with Wolf 55gr in HK93s (some have 1 in 12 twist), however, the best test ammo is something as close to the old NATO spec for M193, Federal XM193 (not bulk pack!), Win White box use to be (have not used for years) etc.

 

[Stef]

The barrel is designed for the 55 grs M193.
The best results I get is with Sellier & Bellot but not sure if it is imported in US.
Sellier & Bellot - Rifle ammunitions Training (FMJ)
it cost around 70 $ the bulk of 140 ammos
Boite 140 cartouches SELLIER BELLOT 55 grs FMJ

 

[57Strat]

What brands of "better ammo" do you recommend? Wolf Classic? What grain?

I have fired all kinds of brass case M193 ammo through my HK93 over the last 25 years and have never had a single malfunction. The HK93 even worked with some pretty weak American Eagle .223 55 grain which would not function very reliably in my 14.5 inch AR but worked in the 16" AR.

It is just common sense that if you try one brand of ammo in TWO HK93 rifles and BOTH rifles have malfunctions, then it is the ammo that is the problem. Simply try any other quality brand and it will likely fix the issue. There is plenty of M193 55 grain FMJ ammo out there for sale and most of it is discussed in-depth on AR15.com about how good the ammo is. My most recent 5.56mm ammo purchases were Privi Partizan M193 and Federal M193. I shoot Wolf Military Classic in my AR's and it works fine in those guns, but I have never fired any Wolf in my HK93.

BTW...Stick with M193 55 gr FMJ in the HK93 since the HK93 is a 1/12 twist rate barrel. There were a very few 1/7 twist rate HK93's imported but those are very rare. If you have a 1/7 HK93 you can shoot heavier than 55 gr in addition to 55 grain. The 1/7 twist guns have a 1/7 stamp on the barrel under the handguard. The 1/12 twist guns don't have the twist rate stamped on the barrel.

Use this website to find deals on ammo:

http://ammoseek.com/


This looks like a good deal on quality ammo.

http://shop.militaryshooters.com/catalog/product.asp?ret_id=140211&pid=1029588


I would try a mag or two of Wolf in your HK93 before I ordered it by the 1000 rd case unless you have an AR15 you could shoot it in if the Wolf doesn't have enough power to function in the HK93. Numerous people have reported in chronograph tests that Wolf is underpowered compared to mil-spec ammo.

 

[jpgeorge]

Check/replace:
The extractor
The ejector
The recoil rod/spring
-you should be able to smoothly compress the spring when the stock is out of the firearm.

Have you tried swapping out all of the easily removable component rifle-to-rifle until you induce the same problem in the "good" firearm.

If you replace everything, then maybe you have a deformed receiver. All it takes is a slight slowing of the bolt carrier to cause jams.

 

[Spitfyr]

A couple years ago I bought 10 cases of PMC Bronze 223, and while I feel it is quality ammo, it is not mil-spec, so it is not as hot as it could be. It should run fine in a magazine fed gun, since I had it running in a belt gun...but I could tell it was not nearly as hot as M193 or other mil-spec ammo. My belt gun ran slower than normal with it, and the ejections were not as far.