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Discussion Starter #1
I am a left handed shooter. I have a bad shoulder, so I have always shot 9mm. My LGS doesn't have a P2Ksk to rent in .40. I know this is subjective, but I would like to make the .40 my EDC. If you could please let me know your thought specifically on those two calibers regarding recoil with the P2Ksk and your thoughts in general on .40 (some say it's dying out because of ballistics in 9mm) I would greatly appreciate it. Oh, I ONLY carry AIWB and I intend on purchasing the V2 (LEM). Any thoughts on that would be welcomed too. Thank you in advance for any input you might have.
 

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Why are you interested in a .40 S&W, rather than a 9×19mm? The .40 S&W will have more recoil, less capacity, and higher cost; the main advantages of it compared to 9×19mm is that ammo tends to be more available during panics, and it has marginally better improvement for intermediate barrier penetration (though the performance gap can easily be overcome by superior bullet technology, e.g., .40 S&W ball will perform noticeably poorer than a bonded 9×19mm bullet).

Beyond that, why a P2000SK? The P2000 or USP Compact are arguably a better size for CCW, as it is a nice balance between being an NPE gun like the P2000SK, and a full-sized gun like a USP or P30. I personally carry a P30LS AIWB for CCW; I'm 5'8" and ~140 lbs.

The P2000SK in .40 S&W, while perfectly servicable, isn't exactly what I'd consider optimum, particular if you have a bad shoulder. No matter how soft shooting a .40 S&W is, the 9×19mm on the same platform will always be softer shooting, particularly for small guns like the P2000SK.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the input. I was under the impression that the 40 would offer more stopping power and have read that the sk handles the recoil quite well. Is the USPc really small enough to carry AIWB? I have the USP expert in 9mm and assumed the compact version would still be quite large and uncomfortable for that carry? I love 9mm and so I will certainly consider sticking with that caliber, but is the USPc comfortable when driving too? Do you have any suggestions for holsters? I've looked at high noon and dale ficke (sp) but would love any info you might have. While we're at it, I carry 150 Federal HST micro 9mm. Do you recommend anything else and why? I only train with browning 147 grain; more recoil but less expensive than HST.
 

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If there's any question about your ability to handle recoil because of an injury it's silly to consider 40 imo. The ballistic advantage over 9mm is academic. A 124gr hollow point at NATO pressure is going to drop a badguy no problem.
 

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Thanks for the input. I was under the impression that the 40 would offer more stopping power and have read that the sk handles the recoil quite well. Is the USPc really small enough to carry AIWB? I have the USP expert in 9mm and assumed the compact version would still be quite large and uncomfortable for that carry? I love 9mm and so I will certainly consider sticking with that caliber, but is the USPc comfortable when driving too? Do you have any suggestions for holsters? I've looked at high noon and dale ficke (sp) but would love any info you might have. While we're at it, I carry 150 Federal HST micro 9mm. Do you recommend anything else and why? I only train with browning 147 grain; more recoil but less expensive than HST.
AIWB is deeply personal, but like I said, you can really hide some things, depending on your dress, body shape, belt, and holster. However, I don't think the USP Compact or P2000 would be particularly difficult to carry if you're dedicated; I know many people that conceal carry a Glock 19, which is fairly similar in size.

I do not know much about the Federal Personal Protection HST line; however, I would cautiously say it's okay, as Federal's Law Enforcement HST line is excellent stuff. Here is the list I usually use for self-defense ammo recommendations: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo. DocGKR is one of the leading sources of ballistic testing. I personally carry Speer Gold Dot 124 gr. +P currently, but will eventually be rotating it out for Federal HST 147 gr.; I'll note that buying the 50 round boxes that are packaged for law enforcement is generally much cheaper than the 20 round consumer boxes.

For holsters, particularly AIWB, I personally suggest looking at JM Custom (http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/) or Dark Star Gear (http://darkstargear.com/). Dale Fricke's designs are a bit dated, though he has excellent customer service, and it may very well work for you. There are many holster companies out there that do great work, but JM Customs and Dark Star Gear are the ones I'm familiar with. I'll note that many people I know have literally boxes of unused holsters, as they search for the perfect one. I personally use a Raven Concealment Phantom, but that's because I have a very specialized combination that almost no one else is willing to touch (P30LS with threaded barrel, X400U, and RMR). Raven Concealment makes excellent typical IWB/OWB holsters, but their appendix holster models have been discontinued, besides for the Glocks and M&Ps.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm enjoy the LE 147 gr HST, it's excellent ammo. I enjoy the low muzzle flip I get with the Federal 150 HST. The gelatin tests look quite promising and inline with the 147's. Thanks for the info. I'll start doing my homework. The USPc is one I'll have to hold to see if it will work. Comfort is king and printing is something I avoid as best as I can. I carry an XDs 9mm currently, but want to get away from a striker fired EDC. I'm ok with the smaller profile of the p2000sk if it can get the job done (which I believe it can) and is comfortable (which it looks to be) and, of course, my draw and shot placement are where they need to be. For the record my shots are on, but I have a lot of work to do on a smooth draw. If that USPc 9mm is compact enough you may have sold me on it!!
Thanks again!
 

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While the .40s&w is more versatile because you can also shoot .357sig with just a barrel change, the 9mm is a much better choice. I have all three calibers in P2000sk but prefer the 9mm. With the latest offerings in 9mm loads, it'll meet expectations.
 

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Welcome to the site--- the application of the proper 9MM ammunition will work fine for you!!! :biggrin:

Tony
 

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Discussion Starter #11
While the .40s&w is more versatile because you can also shoot .357sig with just a barrel change, the 9mm is a much better choice. I have all three calibers in P2000sk but prefer the 9mm. With the latest offerings in 9mm loads, it'll meet expectations.
Thanks for the info. This Forum is pretty awesome! Everyone is so helpful.
 

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Ive carried .40 sw pistols AIWB for 15 years, Sig and Glock. I am a big fan of .40. That being said, you have 2 distinct issues. First, do you like/ can you shoot well with .40. If you hurt after shooting, dislike the increased recoil, accurate follow-up shots are more difficult, etc you will be negating any increased value that .40 could possibly give you. Plus you wont like shooting the gun so you wont practice enough....you see where this is going. I would suggest you rent a Glock 27 to familiarize yourself with the .40 recoil. In my opinion the G27 isn't noticibly different from the P2000sk as far as recoil. Most likely your LGS has one to rent they are pretty common. I shot about 400 rounds through a HK p2000sk when I was thinking of switching and recoil was very similar to me. Second, AIWB carry-this is made wonderful or miserable usually based on the quality / position of holster as well as the width of the pistol grip. When I started to transition to the P2000sk I thought that the pistol grip was thick but usable for AIWB carry. Take that with a grain of salt cuz I also liked carrying a Sig 229 AIWB. That being said, there is no substitue for having the pistol for a trisl period of about a month...I know, it'll be too late then. My best advice is that there is no substitute for a single stack pistol when you are going for AIWB carry-just my opinion. What was your previous AIWB gun if I may ask...
 

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Go with the 9mm, something easier to control given your shoulder and as always shot placement is key. The .40 will have slight more power when shooting through walls or car doors.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks! I think that is sound wisdom. The ballistics for 9mm's are pretty amazing these days. I think it's the way to go too.
 

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Thanks! I'm interested in checking out the USPc in 9mm as well! Any thoughts?
i have a disability and use a cane/wheelchair, i use my cane in strong hand and practice weak hand shooting a lot . people like me make for easy targets . practice weak hand .

i have all 3 grip variations (all my H&K's are 45's) and love my USPc 45, it's my EDC . the p2000 is to slick for my liking and the p30 is probably the most comfortable grip on the market . H&K has so many different variations and platforms to chose from, it delivers the perfect weapon to the shooter .

try renting all 3 at the range or drive around to your LGS's and find the perfect fit for you . i agree with with the advice that's been given, nothing wrong with 9mm, all that matters is reliability and you hit your intended target .
 

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First of all, .40 cal ammo isn't much more cost wise than 9mm. Let's be honest here. The reason that most people prefer 9mm over .40 is because they can't hit the side of a barn with .40. They get owies, and it hurts their hands. My wife shoots .357 and .40 without any difficulties. I don't care how far along ammo has come. A bigger hole means more damage, plain and simple. All that matters is if you can shoot it. Cjude said it well. I own a 9mm firearm, but prefer .40 for carry. I would go to .45 before 9mm. Had a shooting here a few years back, in a grocery store. The shooter used a Steyr 9mm. Shot the guy in the chest and the head. He's still with us. A .40 or .45 would have taken his head off. I think that the P2000SK in .40 is the best carry firearm out there IMHO. I only carry mine OWB, because it's a bit large for me to carry IWB. I carry something smaller when I need to carry AIWB. It depends on how/why you shoot also. I have given up punching holes in paper, just to see if I can hit a bull's-eye. My practice focus is on being able to protect myself and family, so I try to practice getting all shots on a torso, wherever they may hit. More holes, more bleeding. Bigger bullets, bigger holes. If my sole purpose was to punch paper, I'd shoot a .22...................especially if I was worried about ammo cost.
 

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First of all, .40 cal ammo isn't much more cost wise than 9mm.
1000 rounds of S&B 9×19mm from bulkammo.com is 209 USD (1000 Rounds of Bulk 9mm Ammo by Sellier & Bellot - 115gr FMJ)
1000 rounds of S&B .40 S&W from bulkammo.com is 284.75 USD (1000 Rounds of Bulk .40 S&W Ammo by Sellier & Bellot - 180gr FMJ)
That represents roughly a 36% increase in price. When you're shooting many thousands of rounds of factory ammo per year, that adds up quite quickly. I've shot ~7400 rounds so far this year; if I had been shooting .40 S&W instead of 9×19mm, I would have spent over 550 USD more in ammo costs alone, or shot about 2000 rounds less to keep costs the same.

The reason that most people prefer 9mm over .40 is because they can't hit the side of a barn with .40. They get owies, and it hurts their hands. My wife shoots .357 and .40 without any difficulties.
How are her split times between the 9×19mm and the .40 S&W? How are her split times between the 9×19mm and the .40 S&W when shooting SHO? WHO? How about when sweaty or bloody, and thus with a less effective grip on the gun? How about when tired after a physical struggle?

I don't care how far along ammo has come. A bigger hole means more damage, plain and simple. All that matters is if you can shoot it.
You're absolutely right. The problem is, the hole is only marginally bigger, and in order to generate that slightly larger hole, you've given up many other advantages. All things being equal, of course you'd want the bullet that makes a bigger wound channel; the problem is, all things aren't equal.

Had a shooting here a few years back, in a grocery store. The shooter used a Steyr 9mm. Shot the guy in the chest and the head. He's still with us. A .40 or .45 would have taken his head off.
Citation needed.

I think that the P2000SK in .40 is the best carry firearm out there IMHO. I only carry mine OWB, because it's a bit large for me to carry IWB. I carry something smaller when I need to carry AIWB.
I do not know your circumstances, but I find it very hard to believe that a subcompact is too large to carry IWB, unless you are carrying in a highly restrictive NPE (which seems unlikely, given that you've opted for OWB instead). As I previously stated, I personally AIWB a full-sized handgun with a WML, and I am considered to have a fairly slight frame (5'8", ~140 lbs.). Many people I know consider the Glock 19 to be the sweet size for concealed carry, which is again noticeably larger than a P2000SK.

I have given up punching holes in paper, just to see if I can hit a bull's-eye. My practice focus is on being able to protect myself and family, so I try to practice getting all shots on a torso, wherever they may hit. More holes, more bleeding.
Bullseye shooting alone is certainly a poor way to train for self-defense shooting; however, it is an excellent way to gauge one's ability to be accurate, and can do much to teach about trigger control, acceptable sight picture, etc., all of which are fundamental skills that would help any shooter of any discipline. One of the keys to effective practice is to utilize the many different types of drills that focus on different parts of shooting (which I'll note is not the same as gunfighting; shooting is but one component of winning a fight involving a firearm).
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Cjude,
I currently carry the XD-s in 9mm. I like how slim and comfortable it is. However, I want to have a hammer to ride when re-holstering. I also love shooting my other HK's at the range (USP expert 9mm and VP9) that I want to have my carry in the HK platform as well. The VP9 fits my hand the best, but I'm not interested in having a striker fired carry. If I start carrying OWB I would consider going with theVP9. I am going to see if I can carry the USPc in 9mm AIWB. If so, that will become my carry.
 

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1000 rounds of S&B 9×19mm from bulkammo.com is 209 USD (1000 Rounds of Bulk 9mm Ammo by Sellier & Bellot - 115gr FMJ)
1000 rounds of S&B .40 S&W from bulkammo.com is 284.75 USD (1000 Rounds of Bulk .40 S&W Ammo by Sellier & Bellot - 180gr FMJ)
That represents roughly a 36% increase in price. When you're shooting many thousands of rounds of factory ammo per year, that adds up quite quickly. I've shot ~7400 rounds so far this year; if I had been shooting .40 S&W instead of 9×19mm, I would have spent over 550 USD more in ammo costs alone, or shot about 2000 rounds less to keep costs the same.

How are her split times between the 9×19mm and the .40 S&W? How are her split times between the 9×19mm and the .40 S&W when shooting SHO? WHO? How about when sweaty or bloody, and thus with a less effective grip on the gun? How about when tired after a physical struggle?

You're absolutely right. The problem is, the hole is only marginally bigger, and in order to generate that slightly larger hole, you've given up many other advantages. All things being equal, of course you'd want the bullet that makes a bigger wound channel; the problem is, all things aren't equal.

Citation needed.

I do not know your circumstances, but I find it very hard to believe that a subcompact is too large to carry IWB, unless you are carrying in a highly restrictive NPE (which seems unlikely, given that you've opted for OWB instead). As I previously stated, I personally AIWB a full-sized handgun with a WML, and I am considered to have a fairly slight frame (5'8", ~140 lbs.). Many people I know consider the Glock 19 to be the sweet size for concealed carry, which is again noticeably larger than a P2000SK.

Bullseye shooting alone is certainly a poor way to train for self-defense shooting; however, it is an excellent way to gauge one's ability to be accurate, and can do much to teach about trigger control, acceptable sight picture, etc., all of which are fundamental skills that would help any shooter of any discipline. One of the keys to effective practice is to utilize the many different types of drills that focus on different parts of shooting (which I'll note is not the same as gunfighting; shooting is but one component of winning a fight involving a firearm).
To answer your questions................No one ever said that shooting sports were cheap. " How about when sweaty or bloody." " Less effective grip on the gun." Tired after a physical struggle." Give me a break. We are average citizens, and don't run around playing Rambo( no offense to our military people). If your conjuring up some scenario, I really think that it's a stretch to assume that just because you have a firearm that is larger than 9mm, these problems will somehow have some large noticeable effect. My wife carries and shoots and practices with .357. in a nice revolver, which can be used as a hell of a club if necessary, fitting her hand like a glove. Any hole that is marginally larger, is still larger. I don't try to stuff a P2SK down my pants, when I need to carry AIWB or IWB, I use a Kahr MK .40. When you are a larger framed person, much larger than your build, stuffing firearms in your pajamas gets a bit more difficult. All methods of carry can become uncomfortable when your a larger framed person. Me personally, have solved that problem by using different firearms versus the same firearm in different holsters. Your average citizen usually cannot afford to do both target shooting and defensive shooting in the larger calibers. Knowing how the original op was going to be spending his shooting time is important. Your assuming that advantages are being given up by going to a caliber larger than 9mm. Shooters that shoot nothing but .40 exclusively, will tell you it's just like shooting other calibers. Practice, and you get good at it. I would never shun/steer someone away from a particular caliber just because it wasn't popular that day, or it was a bit more expensive versus will the 9mm be around when we have ammo whatevers again? I happen to believe in the round, much like .45 shooters. Pretty loyal to the specific round. If I were ever to change, I would go to .45 cal. If I can practice, and become proficient with the caliber, why would I want to go smaller? If you shop around, you can get .40 cal ammo for decent prices.
 
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