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Discussion Starter #1
OK
Here in Michigan due to the length we have to register it as a pistol.
(yes, stupid I know.. and yes its ever more absurd we have to register our pistols with the PD for a "safety inspection"...

ANYWAY

I took in my USC/UMP conversion which has the navy lower with the selector switch which works as semi auto in all positions...

Anyway the office calls in their armorer they talk and then after this goes on for about 45 min. they tell me they are going to have to check my gun into property as its a against the law (fed. law) to have any Full Auto parts and they suspect the selector switch itself is from a full auto kit which he says is illegal... I say Shennanagins! (not to his face of course) but either way thats baloney! These are sold all over the web and in stores everywhere...

Does anyone know where I can show him these are legal?
They are talking about taking and destroying mine...
 

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ITs a stock USC that was converted by who? I would be calling two people asap. First would be my attorney, call your state NRA or the NRA directly and second would be the ATF.
 

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Direct them to this info.

http://www.top-notchparts.com/atf_nfa_letters.htm

Hope this helps! Damn some police are so ignorant and just chomping at the bit to exude their feeling of superiority over us mere mortals.

It seems there are only two types of cops. Those with morals and brains that serve their community well and deserve respect, and those that feel they are above the rest of us and assume everyone they meet is a criminal and will be treated as such at all costs. I hope good sense and education will prevail and you get your weapon back!
 

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If it was converted by one of the companies who do conversions (TE, TN, HDPS, etc.), I can't picture them returning your weapon to you in an illegal configuration. Also, are SBR's legal in MI? If it's a registered SBR, I don't see how the police's authority could overrule ATF's approval of that weapon.
 

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I think this is the second time I have heard almost the same Michigan story in the past few months. I can't recall for sure, but I think kdogg had something similar happen to him. You might check with him; sorry if I got the wrong guy but I searched the forum and couldn't find the link.
 

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SBRs are not allowed in MI. MGs are ok but not SBRs. Guess whose bright idea is that?
This is correct, SBR's are prohibited in Michigan. Further, it is legal to own an F/A firearm as long as the receiver was registered as F/A prior to 1986 (don't quote me on the year but it's in that area). It is prohibited to convert ANY semi-auto weapon into full-auto regardless of date of manufacture.

As for your issue with the USC. As with the SL8, the receiver is designed in such a manner as not to accept full-auto parts. As long as those "features" are not modified to accept F/A parts, the receiver itself is legal. Your issue with the trigger is completely different. On a UMP lower (used in a USC) to avoid any legal issue (as you did) most will fill the forward area of the housing with polymer so that the F/A "trip" assembly can not be installed.

See http://www.hdps.org/htm/5-3-1.htm about 1/2 way down the page.

When I purchased my G36 S-E-2-F pistol grip for my conversion, the "trip" lever and the "slide" were already removed hence only allowing semi-auto operation in any position. I was fairly concerned about the legality of this so just to be safe, I put my SL8 internals into the grip hence only allowing 2-position movement (Safe - Semi).

I think had you had an FBI lower (2-position) or put your USC internals in there allowing only 2-position movement, I don't think you would have run into an issue.

On a side note... when I registered my SIG 229 .40, during the safety inspection the officer asked me to operate the safety. I said "SIG's don't have safetys." He looked at me with an astonished and bewildered look as if I were lying. He really was unaware that SIG's have no safety. I then looked down and noticed that he carried the same gun... WOW!

I would grab the pics from the TN site noted in the earlier post and go down and show them the receiver modification that is required to make the gun F/A. They could argue the fact that you have an F/A trigger group (even if the "trip" is missing since it can be easily put back in). If you're lower has been "filled" there is no way in hell they can conceive that as an F/A trigger group since a "filled" one can't be converted back without modification (remember the post-ban AR's with the "plug" in front of the hammer?). And yes, DEFINTELY write to the NRA. If they detroy your gun and it can be proven that it was a bogus seizure... lawsuit = payday!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well I am going to get back on this today...
It is not a SBR in MI it is a pistol (yes we have weird laws)

Anyone else with suggestions please let me know...
 

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You will need an attorney that specializes in firearms issues to help with this. Really. Cops, unfortunately, vary greatly in their knowledge of applicable statute. Their job is to begin the legal process as a result of their best beliefs that a crime has been committed... and then let "the system" sort it out.

Throwing a bunch of papers in their faces, showing them a bunch of internet pix, and getting other agencies involved is only going to make matters worse.

Get a lawyer now... Unless you don't want your gun back.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks but thats a problem related to our silly laws of having to register it as a pistol not an officers mistake of the fed. law.

This is gonna be interesting...
 

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Did you take yours into West Bloomfield to get it registered?

I did mine in Farmington with the 4 pos. lower and didn't have any problems at all.

If I were you, I'd call the police chief and try to get an appointment scheduled with him to discuss this matter. It probably wouldn't hurt to call over to the MSP firearms division and have a chat with them as well.

It certainly can't hurt you to go in with some documentation on the conversion, your compliance with 922r (show them which imported parts were replaced with US made parts), and a tape measure to confirm it meets MI state law. I think with that, it's going to be awful hard for them to claim you have an illegal firearm at either the state or federal level. If none of that works, tell them to have a BATF inspector stop by. It's probably going to be a pain in the ass, but you may be able to handle it without an attorney.

Once you start with the attorney talk though, you better be able to back it up real quick with a call ro visit from your attorney or they're going to know you were bluffing.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I took it to Farmington Hills, thats where I live now.

The guy is saying I cant have it as its illegal for civilians to own ANY machine gun parts at all...

He is wrong, the ATF addressed this a while back with the AR15 and M16 bolt and carriers.

There is no way this can go full auto the rcvr has not been cut like you would need to in order for it to be full auto.... Cutting the rcvr is what will burn you with the ATF

I do not want to get an atty involved as there really should be no need. This is just an officer who is deciding to make his laws not enforce the laws like he is supposed to do. Please don't get me wrong, I respect that he thinks he is doing the right thing BUT when I asked him if he could call the dealer who sells these and has them converted to discuss this he told me "I don't need to talk to him, I know the law" (I was not rude nor did I have an attitude at all when talking to him, I was very humble). I am going out of town this weekend, if this is not cleared up when I go in there on Monday I will go upstairs and ask to speak to Chief Dweyr or set up an appoitnment with his secretary.

Anyway, I will keep you all posted of what happens... I hope to get a call from them tomorrow to clear this all up but if not as I said Monday I will take the next step and go in there to make an inquiry.
 

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That is precisely why I have suggested to a few other Michigan UMP conversion owners to only use the 2 pos. lower.

As others have stated call MSP, the Chief and ATF.

Do not let this linger as your gun might very likely be lost in the system for a very long time. Bring documentation, be firm but not rude, give them one chance to return your legal property and then get a lawyer, do not screw around. Take this from a retired MI cop, you are close to being in a world of hurt and you do not want to wait for the courts to sort it out. Jeff
 

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That is precisely why I have suggested to a few other Michigan UMP conversion owners to only use the 2 pos. lower.
That's exactly why I put my SL8 internals in my 4-position G36 grip... will only allow movement to the SAFE and SEMI positions. The 2-rb and FULL markings are now "cosmetic enhancements" :)
 

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That is precisely why I have suggested to a few other Michigan UMP conversion owners to only use the 2 pos. lower.

As others have stated call MSP, the Chief and ATF.

Do not let this linger as your gun might very likely be lost in the system for a very long time. Bring documentation, be firm but not rude, give them one chance to return your legal property and then get a lawyer, do not screw around. Take this from a retired MI cop, you are close to being in a world of hurt and you do not want to wait for the courts to sort it out. Jeff
I have the 4 pos. marked lower and had no problem in Farmington. I also shoot it out at Island Lake all the time and none of the DNR guys have had any issues with it. I do have all the USC semi internals in it just to be safe though. Not sure what parts J has in his.

I'm quite surprised Farmington Hills was an issue as I used to live there before. Every once in while though, I guess you get someone with a bug up their ass. I think J needs to just contact the chief and get right to the bottom of this rather than jerking around with the desk jockey that caused the problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I spoke with the officer today and he is just waiting on a call from the ATF.
I think this is gonna work out just fine.
 

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i'd still insist on a letter stating no crime was committed. so you don't have this happen again. and so the judicial system doesn't come knocking. not too mention, you lost your property unjustifiably....

i'm not saying you should sue them. but make sure you protect yourself and your property.

i'd still be getting a lawyer even if i got it back....
 

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Discussion Starter #19
OK
Sorry it took so long to update this but there was no point till
I had an answer one way or another. The ATF did take these
and did inspect them. The Sgt. from the FHPD called me
today and told me I can come pick them up tomorrow. He
thanked me for my patience and understanding...
Yes it sucks this all took so long but I know its not at the top
of the ATF list to deal with, I must say I appreciate the time
and help from the FHPD. I can't be upset for them doing their
job and I appreciate them being patient with me and my calls
and questions.
 

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Thats great, glad it all got worked out without lawyers and stuff :)
 
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