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Whats the deal, are we ever going to see a g28 stateside release? How is it any different than the 417? It has to be better than the FN SCAR right, or else why did the army contract the g28 over the SCAR?
Hey can you guys fill me in on the G28?
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G28 is a military version of the civilian semi automatic rifle MR308. It features a steel upper receiver, and you're not going to see it as a civilian, stateside or not. The closest thing to G28 you can get in Europe is MR308 A3-28, which has a standard, i.e. non-steel upper, though. G28 is the German military designation, not unlike the US military designation of model - M1, M4, M16 etc. however, "G" stands for "Gewehr" - rifle.
BTW you should have probably posted this in HK416 and HK417 HQ section, not here.
BTW you should have probably posted this in HK416 and HK417 HQ section, not here.
Some corrections. The GAF G28 has that absurd steel upper, due to some rather absurd accuracy using MG-issue ball. This steel upper is nothing but useless weight, hence the US G28, since the tender it won had a strict weight limit, maintains the aluminium upper.
The rifle is, even with the hottest loads long range loads like RWS Target+ (4100J from a 60cm barrel), easily a sub half moa gun. Its far beyond what a DMR could previously do, and especially in the US Army package, in a very light configuration.
The GAF G28 is indeed a design by comitee gun that wanted to give the soldier in the Field in A-Stan a platform that is fully day and night capable, both as "new g3" and as "sniper rifle", hence it can do everything, extremely well, but at a retarded weight.
Baljar, you offered a valuable insight of G28's background. However, I'm not quite sure which part of my post was incorrect?
There is the G28 and then there is the G28E. The G28E is a modified rifle that H&K submitted as an entry in the U.S. CSASS sniper competition (and won). mr223a1 has described the original G28, but the rest of you appear to be referring to the modified G28E.
Precisely.
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That is not exactly correct. HK is prepared to sell G28 on commercial market both in EU and US - https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downl...klerKochDMR762.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=1
I do not believe this statement gives us the true picture of the situation either, even though it may be technically correct. What you've posted is an administrative decision of the German Federal Criminal Office, issued at the formal request of the manufacturer (HK), certifying that specific makes & models of firearms described herein, are beyond the scope of certain statutory prohibitions - nothing more and nothing less. As a matter of fact this decision specifically describes the proposed 12" and 16" bbl models as noncompliant. It is a matter of routine that the manufacturers submit their requests before even considering the introduction of a firearm to the civilian market. This in no manner implies that the manufacturer is ever actually going to produce a particular model of firearm. It just means that the manufacturer is, at most, considering the production. In this case the initial petition has been submitted in 2011, however the decision is partially based on the findings from prior rulings (2007 & 2009). It's 2016 now. That being said, all things are possible to him who believes.
In all honesty, you do not seem to understand the document you refer to. There is absolutely no statement of "noncompliance" in that document for said rifles. It only says that these barrel lenghts are subject to §6.1 AWaffV, if you do not know what that means, you should withhold from attempting to interpret such documents.
In no way shape or form does your referred "noncompliant" description affect export or sale of the weapons. It is only a statement valid inside of Germany regards to people who are subject to §6 AWaffV, which regulates what civillian "paper punchers", the lowest permission grade of gun ownership, can obtain. Because unlike the US, "SBR" in Germany are not "NFA" items but ok for everyone, EXCEPT paper punchers, who must have a min. Barrel lenghts. All other ownership permission groups are not affected by this regulation.
I'm not a native German speaker, and when translating the decision to English, I might have used the phrase "noncompliant" inappropriately. I do however understand the meaning of the legal regulation I was referring to. Paragraph 6, section 1, point 2, letter "a" of the General Weapons Regulation ("Allgemeine Waffenverordnung") literally excludes from sports shooting ("vom sportlichen Schießen sind ausgeschlossen") semiautomatic firearms which, in their exterior form, bear resemblance to fully automatic weapons of war within the meaning of the Law Concerning Arms Control ("halbautomatische Schusswaffen, die ihrer äußeren Form nach den Anschein einer vollautomatischen Kriegswaffe hervorrufen, die Kriegswaffe im Sinne des Gesetzes über die Kontrolle von Kriegswaffen ist,"), if the barrel of such weapon has less than 42 centimeters in length ("wenn die Lauflänge weniger als 42 Zentimeter beträgt"). The underlying purpose of this norm is to exclude such weapons from shooting sports; hence such weapons are are not compatible with the permitted purpose of this permit, which was the reasoning beyond "noncompliant" term.
BTW, it's funny how you picked me up on the terminology, without even addressing the main issue of the discussion. As to whether I should refrain from voicing my opinion here, I'll be sure to ask your permission next time. Have a nice day!
I simply point out that you do not understand the law yet draw conclusions from it, possibly leading to confusion for people. Despite me pointing this out, and providing an accurate explanation of your stated "noncompliant" part of AWaffV, you continue to be an "expert" on a law in a language first requiring translation into english on your part. Good job.
The main issue of the discussion is that HK could sell MR308 in whatever G28 Flavour they want to, in any country that would let them, including Germany.
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HK applied to BKA for this decision to be albe to sell G28 (DMR762) on civilian market. If they would not consider selling it, then they would not made any effort to obtain decision. Actually I first heard about it during my visit in Oberndorf, when I had opportunity to shoot G28. People from HK mentioned that they formally could sell G28 to civilians, but they must wait until German military will get little bored with G28. Military does not like when civilians get their new, shiny toy as soon as they got it. Call it "first night privilege". Exactly same reason why for eg. FB Radom will not sell MSBS on civilian market until it is formally adopted by Polish military and military had enough time to play with it and enjoy new toy.
As you may have already noticed, this is an American forum and people use English language here; hence the need for a translation to English. Would you be so kind as to indicate which part of my translation is inaccurate? I'm sure we could all benefit from your expert knowledge.
Unfortunately, they don't sell it in G28 "Flavour" anywhere.
I've heard them cite a wide variety of reasons, economy being the most important. The Polish civilian gun market is simply too small for FB to make the production of civilian-legal MSBS economically viable. They've always been engaging in these activities only as a side line supporting their major objective, which is the military market.
I already pointed out the exact logic behind the AWaffV "noncompliance" that you have misinterpreted. Can not help you if you dont take it.
Also, HK sells the G28 Variant everywhere except in USA, due to Import restrictions. See http://www.heckler-koch.com/no_cach...ungen.html?tx_z7simpledownloads[download]=646 Point 3.4.4 and 3.4.5.
Edit: Quoting myself to avoid typing
Apparently you haven't read my explanation. I'm aware that short-barreled rifles (not within the meaning of U.S. legal designation, before you pick me up on terminology again) are available for purchase with German hunters- and collectors licenses. This, however, does not change the fact that German law excludes the proposed 12" and 16" bbl models from sports shooting, which is basically what I've stated - as a side note only - but, somehow, you managed to make an issue out of it.
Great. As it happens, I own one. And no matter how you choose to phrase it, it is NOT a G28 variant, for it does not have a steel upper receiver. G28 itself is a military version of the civilian semi automatic rifle MR308, which is what HK sells "everywhere".
Its pointless. My initial posting is accurate, keep changing words around, the BKA Feststellungsbescheid has approved HK Sales of G28 in all variations to civlians. Because ALL that this does, "feststellen", is that the weapon is not a weapon of war from a governmentally sanctioned body. Thats why the manufacturer gets it, to say look, our FBI says its not a weapon of war, I can now export it to civilians everywhere. Thats what the document says, End of Story.
Whatever you are trying to construct there "noncompliance" is absolute nonsense, since you only keep proving that you do not understand the German legal logic of arms procurement. Because this is exactly the part where barrel lenghts and noncompliance comes into play. It points out that for German sport shooters, $6AWaffV criteria is not met, which means procurement as sports gun is not possible for GERMAN civillians. Under other civilian procurement, its no problem to procure those guns and yes, even go take them to the range and shoot them.
Google does not tell you this of course.
Whatever you are trying to construct there "noncompliance" is absolute nonsense, since you only keep proving that you do not understand the German legal logic of arms procurement. Because this is exactly the part where barrel lenghts and noncompliance comes into play. It points out that for German sport shooters, $6AWaffV criteria is not met, which means procurement as sports gun is not possible for GERMAN civillians. Under other civilian procurement, its no problem to procure those guns and yes, even go take them to the range and shoot them.
Google does not tell you this of course.
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