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Roger said:
I spoke to one of the HK reps about the 416 upper kit. Not only are they not available right now, ATF is classifying them as "machine guns" in and of themselves. So if a department cant even order them right now, we will never be able to get them! BTW, price will be $1200 when ATF "allows them in country". Yikes, Talking about taking the wind out of my sails...

I could have told you this years ago...

HK hates civilian cash...
 

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I thought the full auto parts that are regulated were in the lower?

It sounds like another ATF shenanigan. Like the whole "AWB bayonet lug" thing. How many fatalities a year from bayonets? Not many.

Then again, how many fatalities come from legally owned HK rifles? Not many. But the ATF will never see that.
 

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Blows my mind. First, it'd be great if they could be bult in the US...secodn, do you rhink HK might have asked for them to be classified as such, to keep them out f Civi hands? Remember, these are not form HK JS, these are from defense or law enforcement, and they dont want them in our hands.

Just a thought.
 

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Roger said:
I spoke to one of the HK reps about the 416 upper kit. Not only are they not available right now, ATF is classifying them as "machine guns" in and of themselves.
Wouldn't that suggest that those who currently have the uppers (nine uppers I believe) are in possession of unregistered machine guns? That would be interesting. I'd like to see something in writing from ATF that explains that one.
 

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I don't believe it for a second. The definitions of machine guns are a matter of LAW people.

If in fact an HK rep said this is was probably to get someone off of his back that he thought would believe it.

AND the whole bayonet lug thing had nothing to do with the ATF - it was a law passed by congress & signed by the President.

Deep breath everyone.
 

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That's no way ATF can arbitrarily declare something machinegun w/o supporting evidence. And unless there's something in the upper to make it special, there's nothing NFA about it. What they could do is have Customs put hoops around it, to designate it as "for machinegun", and as such, they could restrict imports, and then HK would have to follow guidelines as to where these restricted imports could go and couldn't go.
 

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i have it on good word that at this time HK can no longer import the 416 Uppers. this may change in time, but it stands at current.

take from it what you will, but i do trust my source.
 

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Either the guy you talked to was ignorant beyond all logic, or HK is telling outright lies.

There are already 416 uppers in this country, as the ATF has no control over such imports, nor can they claim that an upper receiver can dictate a select fire AR15. (We went through this years ago.)

My guess is that the guy on the phone was ignorant enough to think you meant a complete 416 when you said "upper kits". That would also explain the $1200 agency price quote as no logical agency would allow anyone to rape them that bad for a simple upper.
 

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I read that the ATF has given the OK to import and sell the 416 upper, I think it was in 2004. I don't remember where but it could have been in this site.
There are lots of things to blame the ATF for, lets not blame them for things they did not do.
 

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wh said:
I read that the ATF has given the OK to import and sell the 416 upper, I think it was in 2004. I don't remember where but it could have been in this site.
There are lots of things to blame the ATF for, lets not blame them for things they did not do.

Did you just defend the ATF?

Personally, I think it was one of their secret time traveling agents that killed Archduke Ferdinand and started WW1. They also sank the Titanic and killed Marilyn Monroe.

HK IS NOT THE DEVIL! They are just trying to make money and stay afloat in an increasingly competitive market.
 

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deadboy said:
Personally, I think it was one of their secret time traveling agents that killed Archduke Ferdinand and started WW1. They also sank the Titanic and killed Marilyn Monroe.
LOL!
 

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Isn't there a current(new) import ban on non-sporting type barrels? I think the 416 barrels might classified as non-sporting.
 

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HKpre86 said:
Isn't there a current(new) import ban on non-sporting type barrels? I think the 416 barrels might classified as non-sporting.

This is why there have not been import permits granted.

It's always something. :(
 

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Here's an idea, make the barrels 17" long post ban style. Then cut to suit and thread in the states.
I need to work for HK, anyone agree?
 

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HKpre86 said:
Isn't there a current(new) import ban on non-sporting type barrels? I think the 416 barrels might classified as non-sporting.
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/112205openletter.pdf

If you read the last paragraph on the first page, it clearly states the ATF has revised the barrel ban, and dual purpose barrels are still legal for importation. What this means is that barrels from military firearms are still legal to import, so long as they have a sporting variant.

Now, we get into the odd stuff. Even if that second letter was never written, the barrel ban had no effect on products imported specifically for law enforcement agency use in the first place. The barrel ban was for the commercial market only.

HK does not offer the 416 through retailers. IE; you must set up a contract to purchase from HK direct as a law enforcement agency, meaning that the products could never legally reach the commercial market (civilians).

So why is a barrel ban that only effects civilian sales holding HK's agency sales back? :confused:
 

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Olds. I just got word that all 416 upper imports are denied to LE AGENCIES for the sporting purpose wording. You're right, but they still denied them. Makes no sense at ALL.

It's all in limbo right now.
 

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HKPRO said:
Olds. I just got word that all 416 upper imports are denied to LE AGENCIES for the sporting purpose wording. You're right, but they still denied them. Makes no sense at ALL.

It's all in limbo right now.
That leaves HK one choice.

Is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking? :D

ETA: HK is getting to the point they absolutely need an American factory.
 

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olds442tyguy said:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/112205openletter.pdf

If you read the last paragraph on the first page, it clearly states the ATF has revised the barrel ban, and dual purpose barrels are still legal for importation. What this means is that barrels from military firearms are still legal to import, so long as they have a sporting variant.
I thought I had seen that one before, thanks for posting it.
 

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HKPRO said:
Olds. I just got word that all 416 upper imports are denied to LE AGENCIES for the sporting purpose wording. You're right, but they still denied them. Makes no sense at ALL.

It's all in limbo right now.

Thanks for the update. It's amazing that ATF and Customs would deny LE agencies of America, which include themselves, the HK416 upper for AR. That's just irrational. Maybe they're afraid that the uppers might get into civilians hands.

That does seem to put a huge obstacle for HK's marketing plan in America. I do hope they finally decide to put down the cash and start a US facility for all these 416, as well as US made USC and SL8. Fingers crossed. Either that, or they just say heck with America, and stop trying to bring in long guns. That'd be very bad.
 
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