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OK, I know this is probably a dead horse, but I've seen some 416 uppers going for 39-52k on some sites, are these legal for sale? Also given these prices, if they are going to be imported in mass would it be wise to wait and hope prices fall?
 

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$3000-5000 is a more accurate price for an actual H&K HK-416 upper assembly. Don't expect prices to drop anytime soon.

H&K has officially stated that they will not sell the HK-416 to the civilian market.

Due to H&K stance, the selling/buying of H&K HK-416 uppers is a gray area.
If they are coming from a legitimate source, they appear to be legal. If they come from a illegitimate source, they appear to be illegal.
 

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If they were obtained legally there should be no problem

I am no expert, and I am sure others here will correct me where I err. From what I understand the 416 uppers can not be imported directly for civilian sale due to the US import barrel ban. Therefore Hk will not be able to sell them to civilians even if they wanted to. The uppers you are seeing for sale are uppers that were removed from a Class3 dealer sample. Basically (for our hypothetical purposes) some Class3 dealer obtains a legit letter from a police department requesting a demonstation of Hks new wonder gun; this letter and some other BATF paperwork permit the dealer to obtain the 416 as a complete weapon for said demonstration. The dealer performs his law enforcement demonstartion and then destroys the lower per BATF. Then he sells off the lightly used parts at a tremendous profit. There is nothing illegal about this from the standpoint that you (as hypothetical buyer) are doing nothing more than buying a parts kit.

Correct me if I am wrong? The prices are high because that is apparently what the market will tolerate. Personally I would rather have a Hk91 & 93 for the cost of one upper, but to each their own.
 

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Has anyone talked with HK's customer service to see if they will fix a civilains 416 upper if it should happen to break?
 

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I doubt they will, they were trying to get all the uppers back that fell into civic hands last i heard. They would probably tell you to send it in then keep it lol
Has anyone talked with HK's customer service to see if they will fix a civilains 416 upper if it should happen to break?
 

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HK416 upper service

I have spoken to a HK rep about it. He said that they will not repair it, in fact, they will conficate it if it was an illegally sold "upper kit". They further said that they will not sell parts to civillians to repair 416s that are the result of demilling a post 86 dealer sample. These are going to get really expensive because if a dealed wants to import more than two of the same weapon system, they must submit special paperwork to 'splain what they are up to. It is my understanding, and I'm not an expert either just a collector, that if you have a HK416 that is from a demilled weapon, from a dealer who legally obtained it, you (and I) are legal. If you do this, you should get everything, stock, spring,sling, manual, and all of the parts in the lower receiver. It would be good to get the box or the end flap as it will show that the serial number of the upper was originally part of a complete. This was the path I took and the only fear I have is that parts may be hard to get but thats nothing new.
 

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I have spoken to a HK rep about it. He said that they will not repair it, in fact, they will conficate it if it was an illegally sold "upper kit".
Whoever told you that is blowing smoke. Confiscate? Under what grounds?

It's pretty simple. If you break something on your 416, buy a new part from an HK LE dealer. Easy as pie.

If you break something on your MP5/HK94 or MSG90 clone or HK21 clone, do you try to go directly to HK for parts? No. You go to an HK LE dealer.
 

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Thanks for the replies. I really want one of these even though I need one like I need another hole in my head. Don't want to wind up with a very expensive paper weight if something happened, I can break an anvil.
 

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HK's position on HK416 "uppers"

I was told by two HK reps at a HK factory day at Scottsdale Gun Club. Basically, they seconded this post from Subguns.com:

Start of post:
Subguns.com NFA Firearms Discussion Archive

HK416 uppers.... legal issues!

Posted By: stymie <mailto:[email protected]?subject=HK416 uppers.... legal issues!>
Date: 8/31/05 18:13

I thought I'd paste a post of mine from another site that I haunt; bear in mind that I am merely the messenger!

As I inferred earlier... my timing is not usually this good!
Well... some things never change!
:(

Yesterday, I was informed that my paid order for my 10.5" bbl'd HK416 upper has been put on indefinite HOLD! Why you ask?

Here's the scoop:

ALL HK416 uppers that are in the loop have been recalled due to the *impropriety* of certain authorized military contacts who ordered these kits under false pretenses. Supposedly these were diverted from a purportedly cancelled contract in violation of HK policy. ALL end-users are in the process of being contacted to surrender their/HK's equipment. HK will offer $1100 for each upper returned (Military/.gov base cost) with secondary contacts being required to make up the difference on sales to the civilian component. An investigation into these matters is under way with all principals involved. Criminal (UCMJ) charges are forthcoming & threats to extend co-conspiracy charges down the food chain are being set into motion.

End-users who cooperate with authorities will be immune from prosecution of what in HK's opinion is "reception of stolen property". This will be enforced through the BATFE & local authorities according to Pete Simon (ext 227) & Neils Iloff (ext 231) of HK, VA. (703 450-1900). "It is the opinion of HK... that these uppers are the sole property of HK & they will NEVER be released for civilian consumption... even when a new factory is completed in Ohio to produce them."

Sturmgewehr, subguns.com, AR15.com, online auctions etc... are being closely monitored to cut off distribution.

Bottom line: there now exists a small but thriving blackmarket where these uppers are being flipped for unprecedented profits. Buy at your own risk. Obviously, there is NO warranty expressed or implied. "Confiscation will be the order of the day" according to a spokesperson with HK's Legal Department.

"Dealers will be receiving supportive documents detailing the implications of complicity in the very near future. "

I am not a happy camper

End of post:

That seems pretty clear to me.
 

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Doesn't stop people from having them though. Do you think everyone traded them in? Hell, I've seen them for sale on here too since that.
 

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Of course it doesn't stop anybody, it just drives the price up!!!! I don't think that this means that there will be any less, just not anymore unless someone comes up with a better plan than joe Allen Sizemore. (see HK Talk- confiscated HK416 uppers). Does anyone know if the importation of HK416 upper kits has been halted, or just tighter restrictions? Boomfab?
 

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No 416 kits have been imported since the MG barrel import ban was enacted in mid 2005. Zip, zero, zilch. No uppers for the MIL. No uppers for LE. Complete 416's are no problem to import at all.

The fuss HK made in 2005 about some 416 uppers had to do with ONE dealer (Bryan Pritchard) getting a bunch (ten or so) of 416 uppers in under ambiguous pretenses. Nothing illegal but it sure pissed HK off when he sold them to civilians. Again, nothing illegal. These uppers were legally imported as uppers (not full post sample guns) before the ban went into effect.

There are now a plethora of 416 uppers out there. 99% of them are not from the 2005 ordeal. They are from legally obtained post dealer sample machine guns.

You don't have to chop up a 416 registered lower receiver into itty bitty bits to take the upper off and resell it. Sell the lower to another C3 dealer. Sell the lower to a LE dept. Keep the lower in the safe and forget about it.

The current conversation in HK Talk about the 416's uppers is about a gov't DOE employee (Sizemore) who used his position to obtain (steal) different firearms related items and sell them for a profit. He did this with some EOTechs as well. Does that mean EOTechs are illegal of own? Obviously, no. But if you steal an EOTech from the DOE and sell it, that's illegal. Same goes for stealing 416 uppers and selling them.
 

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If you have a Class III license you can own one, since that would make you a dealer. The 416s are sold through dealers, so it would go to reason a dealer can buy one with a demo request on letterhead from MIL/GOV/LE. The 416 is post-86 so it cannot be kept unless the license is maintained.
 

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If you have a Class III license you can own one, since that would make you a dealer. The 416s are sold through dealers, so it would go to reason a dealer can buy one with a demo request on letterhead from MIL/GOV/LE. The 416 is post-86 so it cannot be kept unless the license is maintained.
interesting
 

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How are NIB ones being sold????

As I understand it.....which doesn't mean a lot......You have to get a demo letter. How can a weapon be demo'ed and be NIB. Does anyone know how much these C3 dealers are buying them for??? I knew Sizemore and lost about 1K due to him selling me a US Optics scope he stole from DOE. I am a State Police Officer and I contacted DOE, BATF&E, FBI and any other agency I could think of to see what I needed to do. I had to give the scope back. Which didn't upset me too much. I lost the 1000 bucks I gave him for it but taht was it. I guess my feeble little mind can't understand how you could legally obtain one as a Demo and then sell it as NIB???? I would love to have one too but us cops don't get paid that much, GYZ
 

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There's more at work than just "demo's". If an FFL/SOT dealer wants to get their hands on a complete 416, they need a demo request letter from an interested agency. Then the dealer sends in an order to HK along with the demo letter and are shipped the post-sample machinegun. Like stated earlier, if that dealer ever gets out of the business and gives up their FFL/SOT, they will have to get rid of any and all post-samples. FFL/SOT-holders can have two post-sample machineguns of the same type at the same time.

Now, if an LE agency wishes to purchase (not demo) an HK416 or several of them, they place an order through the FFL/SOT and include a lot of documentation--including Federal Excise Tax exemption forms, State Sales Tax exemption forms (if applicable), departmental purchase order, and a signed letter from the CLEO of that agency (depending on the department, sometimes the purchase order and Chief's signed letter are combined into one document). These documents, along with payment in full, are submitted in triplicate to the FFL/SOT who forwards them on to the to HK. Eventually, HK will direct ship the weapon(s) to the agency--NOT to the FFL/SOT.

So, now the logic follows thusly: In the first scenario, you have post-sample machineguns in the hands of the dealer and in the second, you have post-sample machineguns in the hands of the LE agency. In the first scenario, what if (hypothetically) maybe one of the two HK416's doesn't actually get fired during the requested demo? The dealer could remove the lower and either donate the lower to an agency or destroy it and then proceed with the sale of a brand new unfired 416 upper. In the second scenario, the agency could (hypothetically) order more than they need. On the extra weapon(s), they could remove the lower and marry it with an AR upper and sell the brand new unfired 416 upper--helping to recoup at least a portion of the expense laid out for the weapons in the first place. Many agencies have officer-supplied AR patrol rifles and many would love to have a full-auto lower to issue to selected officers.

Of course, all the foregoing is completely hypothetical.
 
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