[Landpimp]

Kinda odd, never had an issue before but here what its doing(or not doing)

I can fire any amount of rds and all will eject them all just like normal

When I have a live rd chambered sometimes(no rhyme or reason when) I can not manualy eject the live rd with the cocking handle.......it just won't budge, other times it ejects the rd just fine.

using the same ammo brand I have for years, gun was cleaned(very well) after it happened the 1st time it happened, so today I gave it a try again.....still did the same thing.

Like I said.....it will fire 100's of rds and eject them just fine, but I just can't eject a live chambered round.....sometimes.

to get the live rd out, I either have to fire it or take the gun apart and give a good rap on the cocking handle with the buttstock, then it will come out.

I am stumped......but I am sure someone knows whats going on

BTW, its a DOJ HK94, nothing inside is anything but HK, lower is a FBI lower, B&T stock, not that it should matter but wanted to put that out there.

John

 

[BIGDUKE60]

your lower is sitting just a bit to low. to work by hand.. but with the speed of it working as you shoot it.. it works fine.

if you pop your reg Hk94 lower back on it you will see that it will kick the rd out...(should) by hand..

have fun

 

[Landpimp]

I had considered that might be possible, makes sense as it not always happening.....I'll give it shot. It only does it with a rd chambered, never a problem if its empty(like just ranking the handle when empty)

any way to make the lower sit up higher? it does seem like it recently loosened up a bit, more back and forth and up/down though

your lower is sitting just a bit to low. to work by hand.. but with the speed of it working as you shoot it.. it works fine.

if you pop your reg Hk94 lower back on it you will see that it will kick the rd out...(should) by hand..

have fun

 

[AviatorDave]

See if you can get it to have the same problem when empty, or must it always have a round in it to have the problem.

A lower that sits too low it can cause ejection problems, but not extraction problems.

If you are indeed having trouble unlocking an unfired round, it can only be a few things I can think of without looking at it -

They are:
1. Bulged round. It would happens to me about 15 times out of 1000 rounds because I shoot a lot of reloads, but since I check them carefully, it rarely happens. But as you're not using reloads, that shouldn't be a problem.
2. Some problem with the rollers or trunnion. I've seen a few badly worn trunnion/rollers/locking pieces that were difficult to unlock. Also, check for broken/worn roller retainer or cracked bolt head. Basically check everything involving the bolt from the carrier forward.
3. Some problem with the cocking tube itself, or perhaps the recoil rod.

Take it apart and look for shiny spots where metal has been rubbing together. Is any of it new?

I'd first check out the rollers, roller retainer, and trunnion very carefully. If you find nothing there, before you put the rollers back in, load up a mag with verified good rounds and cycle it a bunch by hand and see if you can get any to hang. (Be sure it's on safe, or pull the hammer out to be double sure.)

 

[Landpimp]

Never when empty/unloaded, always a live rd in chamber, manual ejectting/cocking handle just wont budge

ejects spent rds 100%

ammo is good reloads(HSM), ran it in 3 other guns today, no issues, using it for 3 years 100% of time.

I stared at every part, nothing odd. When it happened the 1st time, I ran it all thru the ultra sonic, checked it over then and today.

cocking tube and everything else looks perfect(to me) moves without issue(except when above happens)

ran 60rds thru by hand......no problem, all ejected, no hang ups

this is my 1st HK issue.....its buggin me


\

See if you can get it to have the same problem when empty, or must it always have a round in it to have the problem.

A lower that sits too low it can cause ejection problems, but not extraction problems.

If you are indeed having trouble unlocking an unfired round, it can only be a few things I can think of without looking at it -

They are:
1. Bulged round. It would happens to me about 15 times out of 1000 rounds because I shoot a lot of reloads, but since I check them carefully, it rarely happens. But as you're not using reloads, that shouldn't be a problem.
2. Some problem with the rollers or trunnion. I've seen a few badly worn trunnion/rollers/locking pieces that were difficult to unlock. Also, check for broken/worn roller retainer or cracked bolt head. Basically check everything involving the bolt from the carrier forward.
3. Some problem with the cocking tube itself, or perhaps the recoil rod.

Take it apart and look for shiny spots where metal has been rubbing together. Is any of it new?

I'd first check out the rollers, roller retainer, and trunnion very carefully. If you find nothing there, before you put the rollers back in, load up a mag with verified good rounds and cycle it a bunch by hand and see if you can get any to hang. (Be sure it's on safe, or pull the hammer out to be double sure.)

 

[AviatorDave]

Never when empty/unloaded, always a live rd in chamber, manual ejectting/cocking handle just wont budge

ejects spent rds 100%

ammo is good reloads(HSM), ran it in 3 other guns today, no issues, using it for 3 years 100% of time.

I stared at every part, nothing odd. When it happened the 1st time, I ran it all thru the ultra sonic, checked it over then and today.

cocking tube and everything else looks perfect(to me) moves without issue(except when above happens)

ran 60rds thru by hand......no problem, all ejected, no hang ups

this is my 1st HK issue.....its buggin me


\

Do you have any spare parts you could swap out?

I'd still try and swap the bolt head and rollers out first. But that's REALLY strange that it will hand feed them with no problems.

 

[Trip]

your lower is sitting just a bit to low.

John, had the same issue... check your c/p job on the lower.... try it with the factory lower... Bet the problem goes away! It did on mine...

 

[Landpimp]

I will swap lowers, I have the stock one and some other SEF C/P lowers and trigger packs.

just seems odd, I can't see how anything in the trigger pack or lower would keep it from manualy ejecting........but there must be I guess

also have another 94, so I will swap stuff back and forth if needed, wish I could just blast in the back yard, but have to hit the range or head out to my vacant property to try it out

 

[Landpimp]

stupid afterthought.

the FBI lower I was using on the 94, was from a 93, all I did was change the ejector out, I am almost sure it still had the 93 hammer spring in it, could the 93 hammer spring in the 94 maybe give me this problem?

 

[AviatorDave]

I will swap lowers, I have the stock one and some other SEF C/P lowers and trigger packs.

just seems odd, I can't see how anything in the trigger pack or lower would keep it from manualy ejecting........but there must be I guess

also have another 94, so I will swap stuff back and forth if needed, wish I could just blast in the back yard, but have to hit the range or head out to my vacant property to try it out

I'm with you - once the round is chambered, with the hammer cocked, is anything on the lower contacting anything on the bolt carrier? If it's full auto, the trip lever is pushing against it, and there might be some pressure from the hammer, but not much. I can see if the lower was pushed too high into the receiver that something might be getting wedged in place, but not too low. And also, it doesn't seem like that would make a difference on there being a round in it or not.

I just can't envision how a lower could cause the bolt to be hard to unlock only when there is a loaded chamber. But if that's fixed it in some cases, it must be doing something.

 

[AviatorDave]

stupid afterthought.

the FBI lower I was using on the 94, was from a 93, all I did was change the ejector out, I am almost sure it still had the 93 hammer spring in it, could the 93 hammer spring in the 94 maybe give me this problem?

It wouldn't make it impossible to pull back unless there is some other problem, but it does increase the force required.

I run a hammer spring from a 91 in my pack all the time, and yes it does make it a little harder to cock. But that would be an easy fix to try. If something else was also increasing the force, that added to the heavier hammer spring could cause it.

 

[jjrphs]

ammo is good reloads(HSM), ran it in 3 other guns today, no issues, using it for 3 years 100% of time.

You don't say which 3 other guns or if you were trying to eject live rounds, but................

Since you're using re-manufactured ammo, my guess is you're getting some ctgs that were previously fired in a chamber not fully supported (Glock) or fired in an open bolt smg. In either case, the re-size die HMS is using is not getting that last fraction at the base and that is what is hanging in your 94's chamber.

I don't shoot Glocks, but any 9mm I run thru my open bolt smgs (the Macs are the worst for this) is pretty much useless for closed bolt fully supported chamber guns. The re-size die just can't get that last little bit of bulge at the base......not enough clearance between the shell plate and die will always leave the bottom of the ctg base untouched by the die. You can shave the shell plate and bottom of the die, but in my experience, still not enough to iron out that little bulge at the bottom of the case that's been fired in a Glock or OB smg.

My bet is this is an ammo issue which is pretty simple to confirm or rule out. Go get a box of factory ammo and see if you have the same issue. My money is on this being an ammo issue.

 

[Landpimp]

good thoughts, but one of the other guns used yesteday was a SP89. and I have used this same ammo 100% of the time in my other 94, other gun was a USP. Never had an issue with HSM in any other gun or any caliber.

but I have some other ammo I will try, heading to the range to see if I can sort it out.

like I said, the gun runs 100%, fires/ejects every rd, just sometimes wont let me manualy eject a live rd with.......which is what really has me confused.

but will try ammo, swaping parts between 94's, different trigger pack and different lower......and will report back today

You don't say which 3 other guns or if you were trying to eject live rounds, but................

Since you're using re-manufactured ammo, my guess is you're getting some ctgs that were previously fired in a chamber not fully supported (Glock) or fired in an open bolt smg. In either case, the re-size die HMS is using is not getting that last fraction at the base and that is what is hanging in your 94's chamber.

I don't shoot Glocks, but any 9mm I run thru my open bolt smgs (the Macs are the worst for this) is pretty much useless for closed bolt fully supported chamber guns. The re-size die just can't get that last little bit of bulge at the base......not enough clearance between the shell plate and die will always leave the bottom of the ctg base untouched by the die. You can shave the shell plate and bottom of the die, but in my experience, still not enough to iron out that little bulge at the bottom of the case that's been fired in a Glock or OB smg.

My bet is this is an ammo issue which is pretty simple to confirm or rule out. Go get a box of factory ammo and see if you have the same issue. My money is on this being an ammo issue.

 

[Landpimp]

alright.....back from the range and parts swaping and ammo testing.......

swaped lowers(3 others)........not the problem
swaped carrier/bolts..............not the problem

it apears the problem(can't manualy eject live rd in chamber) is the ammo(HSM 115g re-loads) but its only random and seems to be only after the gun is hot(30+rds). Ran(when hot) 150rds of WWB thru and never an issue manualy ejecting a rd. Looks like jjrphs had it right

Also, when I just tried to manualy cycle a 30rd mag thru, it gave me the same problem, stuck rds.....but only when hot(as I did the same last night when cold, not problem)

Used the HSM ammo is my other 94, even when hot it was not a problem. SP89 likes it just fine. I must have shot 10K+ of this ammo in the last 2 years, no problems(in any HK) But I might not have shot this 94 much and I really dont manualy eject rds all that often.....more fun to empty with trigger

I guess I will re-clean the flutes and chamber and see if any change, but at least it works 100% with WWB.....but I just hate having to use a different brand in one gun

doesn't it seem odd one 94 has an issue and the other doesn't?

 

[jjrphs]

I guess I will re-clean the flutes and chamber and see if any change, but at least it works 100% with WWB.....but I just hate having to use a different brand in one gun

doesn't it seem odd one 94 has an issue and the other doesn't?

No.....not to me. What you've found is this particular 94 has a slightly tighter chamber than the others and it chambers factory spec ammo just like HK guarentees it should. You can be concerned about that......or be concerned your other guns have sloppy chambers. I guess we all have to be concerned about something............but my guess is those rounds which are difficult to manually eject out of your gun will not fit into a saami 9mm ctg gauge.

Were it me I'd keep buying the reman ammo and live with it and not worry about it; buy the winchester white box for all OR realize the biggest savings (if you're penny wise) and buy a progressive reloading rig to reload your own. With the latter, you'll save even more money and you'll not have to worry about chamber fit issues.

 

[Landpimp]

Now go figure, I clean the 94 again, putting it back together and a roller falls out of the bolthead.....the holder on one side had broke. Will get it fixed monday, but what do you suppose.......coinincidence or not?

I get distracted to easy to re-load

No.....not to me. What you've found is this particular 94 has a slightly tighter chamber than the others and it chambers factory spec ammo just like HK guarentees it should. You can be concerned about that......or be concerned your other guns have sloppy chambers. I guess we all have to be concerned about something............but my guess is those rounds which are difficult to manually eject out of your gun will not fit into a saami 9mm ctg gauge.

Were it me I'd keep buying the reman ammo and live with it and not worry about it; buy the winchester white box for all OR realize the biggest savings (if you're penny wise) and buy a progressive reloading rig to reload your own. With the latter, you'll save even more money and you'll not have to worry about chamber fit issues.

 

[AviatorDave]

Now go figure, I clean the 94 again, putting it back together and a roller falls out of the bolthead.....the holder on one side had broke. Will get it fixed monday, but what do you suppose.......coinincidence or not?

I get distracted to easy to re-load

Hmmm, the ammo and roller retainers.... That sounds familiar. See post #4, point #1 and the last part of point #3.

I wouldn't be surprised if after you replace the broken roller, the same ammo will work again, as log as you don't get some that are obviously damaged around the neck of the casing. The cheap stuff I buy has 5-10 per 1000 where the case neck actually gets crushed under the tail of the bullet. They're really easy to spot when loading the mags, but twice I haven't been paying attention and got one jammed in the gun, had to take it apart and smack the cocking lever with the buttstock to get it free.

 

[jjrphs]

Now go figure, I clean the 94 again, putting it back together and a roller falls out of the bolthead.....the holder on one side had broke. Will get it fixed monday, but what do you suppose.......coinincidence or not?

I vote for coincidence for a few reasons including............

swaped lowers(3 others)........not the problem
swaped carrier/bolts..............not the problem

You still had issues after swapping in "control" parts, and..............

at least it works 100% with WWB

no issues using factory ammo.

If the roller plate was broken while you were doing your test, swapping in the other parts should have fixed the problem AND swapping to factory ammo should have had no effect with original parts. You found the opposite to be true on both counts which logically points back to this being an issue with the remanufactured ammo.

One other note........I had an HK armourer tell me once the retainer serves no other purpose than to keep the rollers in the bolt head for disassembly purposes......that the gun should function completely as normal even without the retainer and folks have fired countless rounds normally only to find the retainer broken once they break the gun down.

I haven't tried this 1st hand but I know more than one person to discover a broken retainer when breaking their gun down at a shoot......reassemble without the retainer and keep on shooting without problem.

Just my opinion......worth every penny you paid.

 

[AviatorDave]

I vote for coincidence for a few reasons including............

One other note........I had an HK armourer tell me once the retainer serves no other purpose than to keep the rollers in the bolt head for disassembly purposes......that the gun should function completely as normal even without the retainer and folks have fired countless rounds normally only to find the retainer broken once they break the gun down.

I haven't tried this 1st hand but I know more than one person to discover a broken retainer when breaking their gun down at a shoot......reassemble without the retainer and keep on shooting without problem.

Just my opinion......worth every penny you paid.

Usually that's the case (and actually, likely was in this case as well) but the one time I've personally seen a broken retainer on a 94, the broken piece got wedged inside the bolt head somehow.

But I've still got my "unimproved, non -F" parts in mine, and so far its been fine.

 

[jjrphs]

the one time I've personally seen a broken retainer on a 94, the broken piece got wedged inside the bolt head somehow.

That is strange........1st time I've heard of that. 99.99% of the time the retainer plate fails by breaking in half at the roll pin hole. Because the plate is seated in a recess and sits flush on top of the locking piece, there's really no place for the plate to go inside the bolt head.......the locking piece is even notched for roll pin clearance.

I was just reading a thread over on subguns wrt MP5 reliability. Here's a couple posts (not mine) germaine to operating with a broken retainer plate:

http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=624632

http://www.subguns.com/boards/mgmsg.cgi?read=624634

2 years! If it were mine I'd definitately replace it but this guy seems to be doing just fine.