[Goomba]

Does anyone know if there is a chance that HK will ever chamber a pistol in this caliber? It seems like my only options are a G20 or a 1911 in 10mm. I'd much rather have an HK product.
Also, I understand 10mm isn't very widely used by agencies, but that doesn't seem to stop Glock, etc.
And I've read about the 10mm USP some dude built up, and I know about the MP5's in 10mm as well. I just wish there was a factory HK product.

 

[TGS]

This has been discussed before.

No, you will likely never get a factory HK chambered in 10mm. While you may love it, the market is incredibly small. It is a niche round, no matter how much you pout. From what I know, the FBI is no longer actively using the 10mm MP5's.

Glock is able to do it because they are already have a much larger market share than HK does. They make **** for people to buy. HK doesn't aggressively market their wares.....Glock probably sells more 10mm's in a year than HK sells of any single caliber, simply because they manufacture at a much higher volume.

A simple search produced these results.

I'd just do the 10mm build like you read about. Nothing wrong with a built, non-factory spec gun. These are service pistols, and unlike what a lot of HKPRO people think, they're not collectors items and won't be for some significant amount of time. Chop'em up, have fun.

 

[Wolvee]

You're going to pay out the nose for any sort of HK conversion. I don't mean a little cute nose attached to a hot blond either. I mean a wort nose on a fat, sauced and hairy 110 year old Klingon female.

 

[azimuth]

You're going to pay out the nose for any sort of HK conversion. I don't mean a little cute nose attached to a hot blond either. I mean a wort nose on a fat, sauced and hairy 110 year old Klingon female.

Ha! That's awesome!!

We might have seen a USP in 10mm if the FBI didn't have so many agents that could not handle full power 10mm recoil and had placed a sizeable order for them back in the day.

 

[TGS]

We might have seen a USP in 10mm if the FBI didn't have so many agents that could not handle full power 10mm recoil and had placed a sizeable order for them back in the day.

Ahhh, yes. Silverback chest thumping at it's best.

 

[azimuth]

Ahhh, yes. Silverback chest thumping at it's best.

Ooooo. Name calling. How progressive...


were one interested, he could read about it here 10mm Auto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and here http://www.chuckhawks.com/eaa_witness_10mm.htm and here http://www.bren-ten.com/website/id7.html

 

[KMKP7KING]

Check out the EAA Witness in 10 mm. It looks like a nice pistol based on the CZ85 frame almost like the Bren 10. I started this topic some time back and folks went nuts so I didn't bring it up any more. I didn't want to stir the pot. But I'm glad you did at least I know I'm not alone out here who likes that round.

 

[Wolvee]

......

 

[III The Chad III]

All you really need is a USP .40 with a reamed out barrel, some stout recoil springs, and some STI mags modified to fit a USP (I believe). I imagine one could be had for less than $1100 if you get a good price on a used USP.

 

[TGS]

All you really need is a USP .40 with a reamed out barrel, some stout recoil springs, and some STI mags modified to fit a USP (I believe). I imagine one could be had for less than $1100 if you get a good price on a used USP.

With the USP40 you probably wouldn't even need extra strength recoil springs, but since that's the cheapest part of the mod at a few mere dollars I imagine it wouldn't hurt to add them.

The chamber reaming shouldn't cost too much, either. Plenty of gunsmiths should be able to do it, just as they've done to lots of other guns that get reamed (I would think mostly .38's going to .357, .32S&W going to .32H&R, and surprise surprise, .40 going to 10mm). I would expect that to cost less than $200, right? EDIT: Just looked around, and prices for barrel reaming seem to hover around $70.

How much are those mags you speak of?

So yeah, I'd think the $1100 price tag is very realistic, if not high.

 

[Pinion327]

All you really need is a USP .40 with a reamed out barrel, some stout recoil springs, and some STI mags modified to fit a USP (I believe). I imagine one could be had for less than $1100 if you get a good price on a used USP.

Yep, that's exactly how it's done. I have a few different recoil assemblies that range from 16-20# depending on how hot the loads are. The mags are the expensive part, but it is worth it to have your favorite caliber in your favorite pistol.

As was said before, the EAA/Tanfoglio pistols are a good choice too. I shoot Doubletap loads out of my Match with no issues, but I do use a 20# recoil spring when doing so.

 

[ptechjpjr]

Shouldn't the ejection port on the slide be opened up also? I believe this is necessary in order for an unfired round to be ejected by cycling the slide.

 

[III The Chad III]

Shouldn't the ejection port on the slide be opened up also? I believe this is necessary in order for an unfired round to be ejected by cycling the slide.

This is a good point that I hadn't thought of. I honestly don't know. A 10mm is only something along the lines of .15" longer than a .40 (0.992" - 10mm and 0.850" - .40 for case length according to Wikipedia) and they use the same bullets. I would imagine there is probably a little wiggle room there in the ejection port.

 

[G3Kurz]

Ha! That's awesome!!

We might have seen a USP in 10mm if the FBI didn't have so many agents that could not handle full power 10mm recoil and had placed a sizeable order for them back in the day.

That is only partially true. Full power 10mm Auto handgus are a handful for ANY shooter and projo design was not always compatible with MV. Modern bonded bullets like those used in the FBI 10mm "Lite" and .40 S&W loads allowed superior penetration and controlled expansion at lower MV's and with less felt recoil and in a smaller framed handgun.

Littel known fact - The frame size was a big issue with the FBI 10mm Auto S&W model 1076 not only because of the agent population with small hands (men and ladies) but also because of the DA pull qual test every prospective agent must pass. He or she had/has to pull a DA trigger X number of times in X number of minutes in order to be considered for new agent training. It was thought that this hand/finger strength was mandatory to qualify with the FBI issue DA revovler and if you can't qualify you can't pass out of new agent training and so no reason to accept you. The FBI has been sued over this by those failing the test which was a MAJOR reason why they rewrote thier specs when they soliticated for the pistols that became the first FBI Glock .40 contract. Not selected 100% for performance but to avoid law suits. That is the reason the HK USP40 full size V7 (DA-Only) finished second behind the Glock - trigger pull quality, even though the HK oytperformed the others in reliability, accuracy and obstructed bore testing. It was also one of the first US Govt RFP's I recall seeig things like grip circumfrance and trigger reach as mandatory specs.

Small things can make a big difference and often technical performance is trumped by "politics" and fear of lawyers.

G3Kurz

 

[Pinion327]

Shouldn't the ejection port on the slide be opened up also? I believe this is necessary in order for an unfired round to be ejected by cycling the slide.

This is true; an unfired round will not eject when the slide is racked normally. I specifically started with a stainless steel USP40 for my conversion so it would be easier to widen the ejection port. Ultimately I decided against it because a) it shoots just fine without the port opened up, b) I was concerned about weakening the slide, and c) if you drop the mag and cycle the slide while covering the ejection port with your hand the unfired round will drop out through the magwell.

 

[M_E_]

If you insist on a 10mm, get the Glock

 

[TGS]

If you insist on a 10mm, get the Glock

Do you have anything to add? People usually respond better to statements that are supported by reason, not to mention learning can take place for everyone else as well.

 

[M_E_]

Do you have anything to add? People usually respond better to statements that are supported by reason, not to mention learning can take place for everyone else as well.

Sure can. The Glock is an affordable option for those who want a 10mm. There would have to be enough length in the frame to hold a 10mm round. Perhaps a 45 frame could do it. The mag outside length would determine that. Once you have that figured out, then you would have to make magazines. I know you are thinking of making the chamber in the barel to fit will fix all issues. But, can the slide move BACK far enough to eject a live round? Don't think so. So, if you are going to lengthen the port, you will have to move the ejector as well. Getting a little complicated now. You can't just go & hit & miss this stuff. Needs to be done by a firearms engineer. You just can't go drilling holes into a slide with out weakening the slide. I'm sure you will encounter feeding & extraction issues that may or may not be resolved.

I agree if you have the time & money to play around with such a project, it would be fun. But don't think this is an easy deal. You just may create a paperweight.

An example of this in my line of work was to get the Winchester Short Magnum family of cartridges to work RELIABLY in a short action bolt gun (308 length). Sounds real easy right? We wound up building a totally new action to accommodate them! The big problem is getting them to feed. We had to come up with a way to get the rounds to exit the mag box parallel to the bore axis. Don't know how many $500 receivers it took to get it right!!! Now they function 100%. No other manufacturer can get those rounds to function in a short action!! Even Remington has given up on the Short Mags in a short action. Way too much R&D costs to warrant its production.

I'm really glad that HK didn't spend the money to do a 10. They do have unique issues to get them to work correctly.

 

[fordemti]

Hate to play devils advocate but M_E_ is right. I've had a Glock 20 before and loved it. Even the full power stuff wasn't all that stout. I plan to get another one soon to match my MP5/10 that will be built soon I hope. But I can't see justifying cost to build this. I'd love to have one. And if anyone ever came up with a simple conversion kit, I'd be all over it. But I just don't see it happening. Get the Glock, save the cash for ammo. You'll need it. 10mm is not cheap to shoot.

 

[TGS]

Sure can. The Glock is an affordable option for those who want a 10mm. There would have to be enough length in the frame to hold a 10mm round. Perhaps a 45 frame could do it. The mag outside length would determine that. Once you have that figured out, then you would have to make magazines. I know you are thinking of making the chamber in the barel to fit will fix all issues. But, can the slide move BACK far enough to eject a live round? Don't think so. So, if you are going to lengthen the port, you will have to move the ejector as well. Getting a little complicated now. You can't just go & hit & miss this stuff. Needs to be done by a firearms engineer. You just can't go drilling holes into a slide with out weakening the slide. I'm sure you will encounter feeding & extraction issues that may or may not be resolved.

A lot of your concerns have already been addressed in this thread as non-problematic by people who've already done the conversion.