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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone think it would be a good idea to have a thread that we can compliment or complaine about our HK smiths and our build experiences? If not where would be the correct place to do so on these boards?
 

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Sounds like a great idea....

It would be better for everyone to know where to NEVER get work done.
 

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Sounds like a great idea....

It would be better for everyone to know where to NEVER get work done.
We already know where not to go :p


But of course, it might be a good idea to have a feedback "thread" (mabey a stickey topic) to post positive and negative experiances with various smiths.
 

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The only thing I see with this not working is where certain members on this board have not been willing to offer the smiths info after complaining about an issue.

The members having issues with a certain smith should want to protect the other members on this board from falling prey to this kind of problem rather than protecting the smith in question.
 

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A separate part of this issue that I believe needs to be fixed here is when a member is willing to bring an issue up they are having with a smith's work in a new or existing thread that they be required to offer all info including who the smith is or get their post zapped.

The smith should be given the opportunity to come on the board to discuss the issue and offer a fix or suggestions which would instill more trust for them and their ability to back up their work as well as give others a chance to weigh their work vs. their problems instead of it being a foggy area.

The smith's we want working on our guns should be involved in this board anyways IMHO.
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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IMO,
This is not a good idea. We have a feedback forum with very strict rules to deal with transactions that occur between members of this board. Even with the rules clearly posted, there is not a day that goes by where there isn't something for the mods to delete because the rules aren't followed. A feedback forum for something that did not happen as a result of this board is asking for trouble on a variety of levels. The mods have enough on their hands taking care of what is related to the boards.

HKPRO.COM cannot and should not be a clearinghouse for opinions or feedback on things that it really had nothing to do with. Further, opinions tossed out without due consideration could have a severe impact on a business person's ability to conduct business. When the line blurs between fact and opinion, things get pretty ugly. And, quite frankly, HKPRO.COM could wind up liable, or at least get sued, for allowing somebody to say or do something that affects another's livelihood.

There will always be good transactions and a few bad ones. I think HKPRO.COM should stay focused on HKPRO.COM issues.
 

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If there is such a forum, I would hope it not:

1. Turn into pro/against camps that so many followers of particular smiths seem to get into (or those who are against rival smiths).

2. Turn into soup-nazi control, like the feedback forum is run.

As far as the smiths themselves responding to the forum, that would be great, but most are too busy to get into long back and forth rehash discussions. I'd rather the smiths work on my guns than get into posting video clips, prior emails with the customers, and otherwise a bunch of sour grapes.
 

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I know of at least 4 smiths that have posted several times or are posting regularly here on the board. Jeff above me would be 1, hk21man is Mike at Michaels Machines, Ralph at RDTS has chimed in on several topics and I believe zastarri is either Mike at TSC or someone close to him.

Of course we cant help it if the old timers don't believe in using a computer but there are several up to speed with us. But it is nice to hear then chime in on issues from time to time IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Then what does one do when a smith truthfully screws up a build because they do not do good work or know what they are doing which there are quite a few out there? I really do not want to hurt anyones business or take work from them but I also believe someone who is planning a build with no experience in smiths deserves to know others experiences good or bad.
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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Money,
What would they have done before the advent of the Interwebtubes? Network and ask for references. It's what I still do! I do not think that it's appropriate for HKPRO.COM to provide this service. If you think that the idea has merit, I would support your efforts to create a BBB style clearinghouse on the net for such an endeavor.

Suds,
I'm really sorry that you feel like there is "soup-nazi control" on the feedback forum. We had a feedback forum and then it was deleted because of rampant abuse in an uncontrolled approach. We brought it back hoping that a strict format and policy would make it a useful thing instead of a free for all unsearchable cheering or booing section. But go figure, folks still do not want to abide by the rules. So posts wind up getting zapped for just that reason: not following the rules. This is Pro's board and they are his rules and the feedback forum is run the way he asked the mods to run it after a thorough discussion with those mods. There's nothing that I can offer you if that isn't to your taste.

Enjoy your HK's!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
All I wanted to know is if it would be a good idea for a builder feedback thread here on the forums and I did not expect HKPRO to add one or do anything that would hurt this website but after all of the responces I can see that it would be hard to do in a fair manner.
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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Thanks for understanding. There are a lot of really good ideas that are generated on this board. Some are very doable and others require a lot of thought to do right and others just aren't a good fit. Finding balance is a very difficult job!
 

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Suds,
I'm really sorry that you feel like there is "soup-nazi control" on the feedback forum. We had a feedback forum and then it was deleted because of rampant abuse in an uncontrolled approach. We brought it back hoping that a strict format and policy would make it a useful thing instead of a free for all unsearchable cheering or booing section. But go figure, folks still do not want to abide by the rules. So posts wind up getting zapped for just that reason: not following the rules. This is Pro's board and they are his rules and the feedback forum is run the way he asked the mods to run it after a thorough discussion with those mods. There's nothing that I can offer you if that isn't to your taste.

Enjoy your HK's!
Yes, quite some time ago, I figured out it's HKPro's board. It has been my observation that the feedback board is run differently than the others, like "stand in line, move up to the counter, place your order, no other talk, move to the left..." I've only left feedback for one member. I stepped out of line when I posted "Another positive for..." I guess I violated a rule by adding the word "Another." The post was zapped. My fault, yes, because I'm not the one serving soup here.
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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Just out of curiosity, do you have an understanding of why the title formatting rule is in place in the feedback section?

And you are correct... the rules are VERY strictly enforced in the feedback section, which makes it a little different than the rest of sections.
 

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Just out of curiosity, do you have an understanding of why the title formatting rule is in place in the feedback section?

And you are correct... the rules are VERY strictly enforced in the feedback section, which makes it a little different than the rest of sections.

Why? No. Was someone abusive with an overuse of exclamation points? Really, not having used it before, I have no history with the feedback board, and I don't intend to use it unless asked by a buyer/seller.
 

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I kind of had a feeling. Good discussion to have because the reasoning is not readily apparent.

The software used to run this site is designed for discussion, not really marketplace stuff. As such feedback is way out of its scope. Take, for example, eBay. Leaving feedback there is pretty specific and restricted. You have to list the specific transaction number, you get a title choice of positive, negative, or neutral, and then you get 60 characters to put all the exclamation points, caps, A+'s or whatever. A person doing a cursory scan of the feedback can do so quite effectively without blurring because it is all formatted the same.

The software on this site is not smart enough to know that somebody isn't playing by the rules. Where eBay will not even allow you to post in violation of the rules, the mods must go back and make sure that things are right and delete those that do not conform. The title part was deemed to be the most important part so that it is easy and consistent.

Positive for Blammo is always positive for blammo. But is A Big A+++ for Blammo!!! somehow more positive? Should an enthusiastic exclamation point indicate that the transaction was "more better"? The consensus of the mods and admins was that there should be only one type of positive, negative, or neutral. Everyone's positive rating carries the same weight as everyone else's. Since we do not have a way to automagically make the posts conform to the standard, the forum must be closely moderated. Feel free to gush all you want in the post, but please keep the titles formatted correctly.

As a further explanation, eBay does not allow non-participants to add commentary on feedback. We chose the same route.

I hope this helps to shed light on the thought process.
 

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That's cool. I don't find the feedback board all that helpful. I just wouldn't take the time to scroll through all the posts or do a search on someones name. The positives wouldn't mean much either, the negatives and their circumstances would be much more informative. Also, it wouldn't bother me any if someone wanted to post a title "Super-de-duper, really nifty cool A++++++ positive for Cooler!!!" But that's just me.

I'd much prefer a system like, when someone posts one of those questions where you vote by placing your selection from several choices (like this: http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71393&highlight=vote). Those give you a score of some sort. I don't know if that would be possible, but bring up a member's name and you could see their score and look at comments? I know something like that was tried here for non-transactions, but something tied only to transactions with a score would be better. But, I understand if the software wouldn't handle that very well. Any way, thanks for taking the time and not telling me "No soup for you!" :90: Happy New Year!
 
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