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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now I know this is a forum, and I won't take anything that is said as legal advice, but I was currious if anyone knows the legality of HK clones. I am in the market for a new 94 style. Here is my dilema:


"Assault firearms" means:

...

Galil type
Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1
Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms

...

and

2. Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed in
paragraph (1) above;

This is straight from 2C: 13-54

I love NJ.
 

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Clones are perfectly legal in NJ just as long as they meet the State requirements. No flash suppressor, collapsible stock, 15 round mag max, 16" barrel, ect.

It seems that in NJ the factory HK rifles are more dangerous and needed to be banned
:rolleyes: :mad:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
hmm

Yeah, I am used to that fun list from building my AR's. I think that a $5000 original hk94 is a perfect tool for mayhem. I mean that extra 100 fps the longer barrel.
 

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Now I know this is a forum, and I won't take anything that is said as legal advice, but I was currious if anyone knows the legality of HK clones. I am in the market for a new 94 style. Here is my dilema:


"Assault firearms" means:

...

Galil type
Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1
Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms

...

and

2. Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed in
paragraph (1) above;


This is straight from 2C: 13-54

I love NJ.
It seems like that last part would make clones illegal in your state.
 

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the banned names are for factory full auto weapons and their derivatives. built full auto, then semi-auto neutered later for import.
any gun built in the US originally as a semi-auto firearm is not substantially identical to the banned guns.
CETME's and semi G3's for example, are banned because built originally full auto, with shelf welded in after. PTR-91 is built as a semi, with shelf installed at factory at time of construction = intended as semi-auto sport rifle only, thus legal in NJ. ( provided no banned features. as stated above.)
neutered former full auto bad, purpose built semi clone good.

don't bother calling the ATF for clarification. call the NJ state police firearms division in Trenton for clarification and direct answers. the ATF will direct you to them anyway. NAPPEN online will answer , if you can get him.
 

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the banned names are for factory full auto weapons and their derivatives. built full auto, then semi-auto neutered later for import.
any gun built in the US originally as a semi-auto firearm is not substantially identical to the banned guns.
CETME's and semi G3's for example, are banned because built originally full auto, with shelf welded in after. PTR-91 is built as a semi, with shelf installed at factory at time of construction = intended as semi-auto sport rifle only, thus legal in NJ. ( provided no banned features. as stated above.)
neutered former full auto bad, purpose built semi clone good.

don't bother calling the ATF for clarification. call the NJ state police firearms division in Trenton for clarification and direct answers. the ATF will direct you to them anyway. NAPPEN online will answer , if you can get him.
This all sounds well and fine except for the fact that the quote above (state law thing) specifically mentions the whole 9x series. So this would certainly imply to me that any factory built semi-auto clone of one of these HK semi-auto rifles would be illegal... i.e., a CA94 is a direct clone of the HK94, which is mentioned on the list.

"Assault firearms" means:

...

Galil type
Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1
Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms
 

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ca-94 is not a direct clone of the hk-94.
the point is: if it was built at the factory as a full auto gun, (hk-94) and then modified to semi-auto to meet import standards ( a shelf added, post production), it's banned. if it was built at the factory as a semi-auto gun (a CA-94, BW-5, etc., with a shelf installed by the factory at time of manufacture, intended as a semi-auto sporter only, it's not a directly similar weapon. internal modifications have been made to the design of clone weapons that change the nature of the firearm in the eyes of the law. the ban is mostly name brand specific.
\
a trip to a local NJ gun shop is in order:


you can't own an AK-47 in NJ, ABSOLUTELY BANNED ON THE LIST:, but you can buy a WASR-10, mak-90 or SA-M7 ( arsenal usa, ak clone), right off the shelf at Butch's gunworld in Vineland NJ

you can't own a Colt AR-15 ABSOLUTELY BANNED ON THE LIST:, but you can buy a Bushmaster, DPMS, Stag arms or other AR-15 in Harry's army navy , Route 130 NJ.

you can't own an HK-91 or G3, or CETME in NJ, ABSOLUTELY BANNED IN nj, but you can walk into Butch's and buy a PTR-91.

carbon-15 AR-15 pistol? G-36 clone? Hague's indoor range in thorofare NJ...

M-14 / m1A ? banned. some models were deemed suitable for competition, and you can get them at the sportsmen's center in bordentown NJ.



they are not specifically named in the banned list, and all were manufactured to be strictly semi auto at the factory, thus are not substantially similar to the banned guns.

NJ law is rediculous, but not absolute. manufacturers have to jump through special hoops, and comply with nonsensical banned features lists, but mostly anything you could want, you can legally get it in an altered form in NJ. beltfed semi-auto's. semi clones of the EVIL bad weapons etc.
 

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The ATF is for federal laws and actually would not neccary enforce even state laws!
they don't even KNOW state laws generally. my local gunshop refered me to the local PD on a question like this. they refered me to the ATF. they refered me to the NJSP, which seems to be the last line in the sand on NJ gun laws
 

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I was born in NJ and left in 1988 for AZ, I often wonder why I didn't move sooner. what was the last straw for me was my $5200.00 property tax on my house,if it was $5200.00 in 1988 I wonder what it would be now ? haveing to apply for a hand gun permit for each and every handgun each time I wanted to purchase a new one was slowing me down . Glad I left B4 the exit tax .
 

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... Glad I left B4 the exit tax ...
Exit tax??
You are kidding right?
Don't tell me that if you sell your house and don't buy a new one within NJ you get taxed higher on the sale?!

But I know what you mean about not leaving earlier; I didn't want to leave CA in 96 for Maine, but boy was my wife right!
 

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ca-94 is not a direct clone of the hk-94.
the point is: if it was built at the factory as a full auto gun, (hk-94) and then modified to semi-auto to meet import standards
( a shelf added, post production), it's banned. if it was built at the factory as a semi-auto gun (a CA-94, BW-5, etc., with a shelf installed by the factory at time of manufacture, intended as a semi-auto sporter only, it's not a directly similar weapon. internal modifications have been made to the design of clone weapons that change the nature of the firearm in the eyes of the law. the ban is mostly name brand specific.
\
a trip to a local NJ gun shop is in order:


you can't own an AK-47 in NJ, ABSOLUTELY BANNED ON THE LIST:, but you can buy a WASR-10, mak-90 or SA-M7 ( arsenal usa, ak clone), right off the shelf at Butch's gunworld in Vineland NJ

you can't own a Colt AR-15 ABSOLUTELY BANNED ON THE LIST:, but you can buy a Bushmaster, DPMS, Stag arms or other AR-15 in Harry's army navy , Route 130 NJ.

you can't own an HK-91 or G3, or CETME in NJ, ABSOLUTELY BANNED IN nj, but you can walk into Butch's and buy a PTR-91.

carbon-15 AR-15 pistol? G-36 clone? Hague's indoor range in thorofare NJ...

M-14 / m1A ? banned. some models were deemed suitable for competition, and you can get them at the sportsmen's center in bordentown NJ.



they are not specifically named in the banned list, and all were manufactured to be strictly semi auto at the factory, thus are not substantially similar to the banned guns.

NJ law is rediculous, but not absolute. manufacturers have to jump through special hoops, and comply with nonsensical banned features lists, but mostly anything you could want, you can legally get it in an altered form in NJ. beltfed semi-auto's. semi clones of the EVIL bad weapons etc.
Since when did the HK-94 become a full auto factory gun? I thought it was the civilian (semi-auto long barrel from the HK factory) version of the MP5.


Hey, check out the wording on the original introduction ad:



This new adition to our most contemporary line of semi-automatic rifles and pistols will definitely increase your sales in 1983. Configured in 9 mm Para and available with fixed or retractable stock.
Somebody throw me a line here but I believe that the CA94 is a direct clone of the HK94, which has been banned in NJ... according to the earlier quote of NJ law. Am I missing something here?

Did the HK94 have a FA bolt carrier? Is that the difference you're pointing out? And since the CA94 has a SA bolt carrier then it isn't a clone? Is that the point?


Edit: Oh, I finally read the rest of your post. You are correct, NJ laws are insane.
 

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Did the HK94 have a FA bolt carrier? Is that the difference you're pointing out? And since the CA94 has a SA bolt carrier then it isn't a clone? Is that the point?






yes (and no), that and several other internal and external features that NJ dept of firearms did not like. NJ law also arbitrarily bans several guns based simply on looks or manufacturer reputation. nothing to do with the function or componants either.
you can buy clones in NJ . i have some, and they are for sale in NJ gunshops. other people on the board have also bought them in NJ shops.
problem is, not too many shop owners know the in's and out's of the NJ firearms code, and simply refuse to bother with ordering ,stocking , or carrying guns they think "may" be illegal because something that looks similar is on the banned list. even gunshop owners can be anti-2nd A, biased by the look of the guns, and or , only want to sell "hunting" type firearms. some will tell you they're banned because they want you to buy something they are a dealer / rep for, or have on hand in their inventory.


if you think the gun laws are bad in NJ, you should see the list of other items that are banned as deadly or lethal weapons in this state.

i'm no expert on NJ gun law, but i can speak as to what i've seen for sale legally in NJ gunshops. clones sell here, and the NICS / NJSP approve the sales when the calls are made.

NJ sucks.
 

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Did the HK94 have a FA bolt carrier? Is that the difference you're pointing out? And since the CA94 has a SA bolt carrier then it isn't a clone? Is that the point?






yes (and no), that and several other internal and external features that NJ dept of firearms did not like. NJ law also arbitrarily bans several guns based simply on looks or manufacturer reputation. nothing to do with the function or componants either.
you can buy clones in NJ . i have some, and they are for sale in NJ gunshops. other people on the board have also bought them in NJ shops.
problem is, not too many shop owners know the in's and out's of the NJ firearms code, and simply refuse to bother with ordering ,stocking , or carrying guns they think "may" be illegal because something that looks similar is on the banned list. even gunshop owners can be anti-2nd A, biased by the look of the guns, and or , only want to sell "hunting" type firearms. some will tell you they're banned because they want you to buy something they are a dealer / rep for, or have on hand in their inventory.


if you think the gun laws are bad in NJ, you should see the list of other items that are banned as deadly or lethal weapons in this state.

i'm no expert on NJ gun law, but i can speak as to what i've seen for sale legally in NJ gunshops. clones sell here, and the NICS / NJSP approve the sales when the calls are made.

NJ sucks.
Well it sounds like NJ is still better than Kalifornia. At least you can still get clones.
 

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yup, and our mag cap limit is a little better at 15 rounds. at least we don't have to saw off the pistol grips on our evil rifles. have you seen the CA thread on what you have to do to be legal there? horrible.
 

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yup, and our mag cap limit is a little better at 15 rounds. at least we don't have to saw off the pistol grips on our evil rifles. have you seen the CA thread on what you have to do to be legal there? horrible.
+1. The worst part is that stupid firearms approved list. At least we can still buy any handgun we want as long as its mags are under 15 rounds.
 
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