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I don't get the admiration for the DA/SA HK pistols. Am I missing something or is the DA pull unimpressive? Long and hard?


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I don't get the admiration for the DA/SA HK pistols. Am I missing something or is the DA pull unimpressive? Long and hard?


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I don't get why people like math. It's long and hard, too. Personally, I think triggers are waaaaay over talked about by people who really make more of it than it is. A nice trigger is great, but i always go back to the HK shooting team videos and how well they ran stock p30's. They probably shoot a lot better with tuned up 1911 triggers, but for most people it wouldn't make much difference in practical shooting. Granted, if you're spending your hard earned money you shoud get a gun with the trigger you like. But on "service" pistols the trigger is unlikely to be amazing. Personally I like em:)
 

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Have you owned or spent any time shooting DA/SA HK pistols??

I love my DA/SA HK P30LS and HK45. Out of the box the SA trigger pull was excellent and the DA trigger pull was fair. Then again I don't know of any OOB DA/SA combat pistols that have a nice DA trigger pull other than certain SIGs like the Legion. After about 500 rounds the DA trigger pull on my P30LS improved quite a bit. Then I put in the 10LB hammer (versus factory blue 12LB for P30L) spring and nice. Then after about 1000 rounds I put in the new style lighter FPBS and very nice about 8 - 8.5 LBs. My P30LS has the nicest DA trigger pull of all my pistols including my SIGs and my CZ 75 SP01 Shadow. Finally I can hit center of target with DA and follow up SA shots and I don't stage DA - constant smooth pull all the way through.

I bought a P30SK LEM earlier in the year for CCW and really like it but I still prefer DA/SA for other than CCW.
 

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The DA pulls on HKs are unremarkable. They aren't the best, they aren't the worst. They certainly aren't the lightest... which is what today's "striker generation" seems to hate. The issue is that no one puts any time into even learning to shoot hammer-fired guns. They just dismiss them as crap because they can't shoot them and aren't willing to put any effort into shooting them. I know I sound like an old fart (I'm only 42) complaining about the everyone-gets-a-trophy generation, but it's kind of true. Shooting a gun with an actual hammer on it is a dying art. If anyone wants to be a better shooter, they should buy a .357 magnum 4" double action revolver and train with it exclusively for a year. That will teach you trigger control, sight alignment, accuracy since ammo is so limited, patience and dexterity when reloading, and also give you an idea of why you need to stop complaining about the "snappiness" of .40. I promise you that anyone who does this will be WAY better of a shooter than they would be otherwise.

Of course, that kind of dedication to learning how to shoot is much, much harder than just complaining about bad triggers and claiming that Glock triggers are "great". :biggrin:
 

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I have no issue with the DA pull on my P30SK, it's very smooth but rather long and stiff (as DA should be). Even after just a little bit of training I was used to it and could put rounds right where I wanted them on the first pull from draw. I don't see the big deal unless you have weak hands. It's actually good training for trigger control to pull smoothly through DA without letting the sights wander. Light trigger pull is not the holy grail.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I prefer Da/SA pistols and have found Sigs classic pistols to be best in class out of the box


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Yeah I thought the double action pull is supposed to be pretty long and heavy and probably unimpressive. They all work fine for me. Get one with a safety and carry condition 1 cocked and locked, or try lem or a vp9 if da/sa isn't your thing.

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The DA pulls on HKs are unremarkable. They aren't the best, they aren't the worst. They certainly aren't the lightest... which is what today's "striker generation" seems to hate. The issue is that no one puts any time into even learning to shoot hammer-fired guns. They just dismiss them as crap because they can't shoot them and aren't willing to put any effort into shooting them. I know I sound like an old fart (I'm only 42) complaining about the everyone-gets-a-trophy generation, but it's kind of true. Shooting a gun with an actual hammer on it is a dying art. If anyone wants to be a better shooter, they should buy a .357 magnum 4" double action revolver and train with it exclusively for a year. That will teach you trigger control, sight alignment, accuracy since ammo is so limited, patience and dexterity when reloading, and also give you an idea of why you need to stop complaining about the "snappiness" of .40. I promise you that anyone who does this will be WAY better of a shooter than they would be otherwise.

Of course, that kind of dedication to learning how to shoot is much, much harder than just complaining about bad triggers and claiming that Glock triggers are "great". :biggrin:
Post of the year above! I agree. Too much whining. Train with it. If you don't like it, go buy a Glock. True skill and great shooters come with practice.


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I don't get the admiration for the DA/SA HK pistols. Am I missing something or is the DA pull unimpressive? Long and hard?
Brand-based forums (HKPRO, Glocktalk, 1911 forum etc) are fan-driven so you'll get plenty of admiration and write-offs. HK's DA/SA triggers (and LEM triggers too) have a fair amount of variability between models, from atrocious 14 lbs DA pulls, measured and confirmed, on several samples of HK45c to some passable samples on P30 to decent tuned triggers on worked over guns. One sample of USPc that I shot had a pretty decent DA pull and excellent SA pull pretty much new out of box.
For practical carry guns Berettas and Sigs do have better triggers than HKs, and for games HKs can't be made into anything close to CZs or Tanfos. The entire HK shooting team is shooting VP9s. You run with HK DA/SA guns not because of their triggers but because of everything else about the guns.
 

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I don't get the admiration for the DA/SA HK pistols. Am I missing something or is the DA pull unimpressive? Long and hard?
Brand-based forums (HKPRO, Glocktalk, 1911 forum etc) are fan-driven so you'll get plenty of admiration and write-offs. HK's DA/SA triggers (and LEM triggers too) have a fair amount of variability between models, from atrocious 14 lbs DA pulls, measured and confirmed, on several samples of HK45c to some passable samples on P30 to decent tuned triggers on worked over guns. One sample of USPc that I shot had a pretty decent DA pull and excellent SA pull pretty much new out of box.
For practical carry guns Berettas and Sigs do have better triggers than HKs, and for games HKs can't be made into anything close to CZs or Tanfos. The entire HK shooting team is shooting VP9s. You run with HK DA/SA guns not because of their triggers but because of everything else about the guns.
 

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My observations are these:
Since the striker fire was designed by HK and then adopted by lessor brands, people have become real DA wimps. DA is there for a reason and anyone man enough to handle their sidearm has never had any issue with DA in the past 100+ years. Secondly, millennial babies have come along to whimper even harder about the DA now. They also whined if a preschool teacher raised her voice at them.
For CCW I prefer LEM as a "preference" and not a need because the double action was a tad heavier which adrenaline well compensates for.
For range and nightstand, the DA/SA USP is perfect for me. The again, some whine that the USP is too heavy and an antique. I giggle every time I hear those words.
Now, for smaller, lighter weight people as well as smaller female shooters, HK has worked hard engineering a variety of arms suitable for most every shooter, with exception of the fools. They tend to buy HKs, then cry about them and soon sell them off for a lessor brand. Thank goodness for that. :biggrin: Sarcasm intended.
 

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Brand-based forums (HKPRO, Glocktalk, 1911 forum etc) are fan-driven so you'll get plenty of admiration and write-offs. HK's DA/SA triggers (and LEM triggers too) have a fair amount of variability between models, from atrocious 14 lbs DA pulls, measured and confirmed, on several samples of HK45c to some passable samples on P30 to decent tuned triggers on worked over guns. One sample of USPc that I shot had a pretty decent DA pull and excellent SA pull pretty much new out of box.
For practical carry guns Berettas and Sigs do have better triggers than HKs, and for games HKs can't be made into anything close to CZs or Tanfos. The entire HK shooting team is shooting VP9s. You run with HK DA/SA guns not because of their triggers but because of everything else about the guns.
Have you tried a current production traditional DA Beretta 92 out of the box? The trigger pull is incredibly heavy and not nearly as smooth as a SIG (and even some HKs) with a lot of stacking toward the end. Again, unlike most of today's striker generation, I really appreciate a metal-framed hammer-fired gun... so I like the Beretta 92 for what it is. However, the box stock trigger pull is not a strong point with it. Then again, it seems like the few hammer-fired guns, including S&W revolvers, that are left out there today all have (probably unnecessarily) heavy DA pulls.
 

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I feel Match / Match LEM Hybrid are best in Class for polymer frame or so called 'Combat Trigger' pistols and would not feel cheated that its not as sweet as my custom Colt Govt 1911 or custom Hi-Power triggers.

The trigger on the USP .45 that I shoot most often is unmodified & breaks at 4.4lbs in SA / 9.xx in DA. Trigger on this USP is very shootable & I dont feel my shooting with it suffers in the least.

Train hard with what you have, at the end of one day you will be a better shooter for it. Employ the shooting basics always!!!
*Sights *Trigger *Grip
 

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If you like Sig's DA pull, you will not appreciate the DA pull of an HK.
The trigger of a SD handgun should not have the feel of a target handgun either.
Unlike a Sig, the DA pull of an HK stacks to a point, and then evens out. The pull is heavy and, especially the P30, it's long. That's exactly what I want on a handgun that I may have to use under stress and at a very close range.
Work out with the trigger by dry firing a lot, and you'll appreciate the beauty of the design.


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It's actually good training for trigger control to pull smoothly through DA without letting the sights wander. Light trigger pull is not the holy grail.
I've always mixed in a fair amount of DA shooting when using revolvers simply to work on the discipline of staying on target through the pull. Regarding the mention of .357 for practice, I have to say that my Python felt like cheating.

The trigger of a SD handgun should not have the feel of a target handgun either.
That's exactly what I want on a handgun that I may have to use under stress and at a very close range.
For CCW I prefer LEM as a "preference" and not a need because the double action was a tad heavier which adrenaline well compensates for.
I agree with these comments, except for the LEM; I don't use that. I'm more concerned with a surprise due to adrenaline when it comes to DGU, than having a trigger like my Python or Gold Cup. Personal preference, suiting the tool to the mission, and also to myself.
 

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Have you tried a current production traditional DA Beretta 92 out of the box? The trigger pull is incredibly heavy and not nearly as smooth as a SIG (and even some HKs) with a lot of stacking toward the end. Again, unlike most of today's striker generation, I really appreciate a metal-framed hammer-fired gun... so I like the Beretta 92 for what it is. However, the box stock trigger pull is not a strong point with it. Then again, it seems like the few hammer-fired guns, including S&W revolvers, that are left out there today all have (probably unnecessarily) heavy DA pulls.
I have four, but the only current production one is Wilson Combat Brig Tactical. It does have an average trigger for a $1100 gun but still better than most HK DA/SA guns I tried. Unlike HK's reduced power hammer springs, the Beretta's D-spring, which is reduced weight comparing to stock 92 F/FS spring, is actually an OEM part of 92D, Elite I/II, 92G-SD and now Brig Tac. In that it is factory validated for reliability and has zero downside to it. It improves the pull quite a bit, qualitatively and quantitatively. You can do the same with HKs but on your own risk / reliability concerns.

I like HKs for what they are but I found no reason to own one with a DA/SA trigger. I simply feel that in a DA/SA gun the trigger is relatively more important than in other trigger systems.

Separately, in regards to other comments made here: I don't understand what defensive trigger means. I want absolutely the most shootable trigger, as long as reliability is not compromised, on my defensive gun because this is the last situation when I want to miss. I don't subscribe to a notion that a shooting, if it were to happen, will be a guaranteed 3 yards, minute of a man task.
 

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The DA pulls on HKs are unremarkable. They aren't the best, they aren't the worst. They certainly aren't the lightest... which is what today's "striker generation" seems to hate. The issue is that no one puts any time into even learning to shoot hammer-fired guns. They just dismiss them as crap because they can't shoot them and aren't willing to put any effort into shooting them. I know I sound like an old fart (I'm only 42) complaining about the everyone-gets-a-trophy generation, but it's kind of true. Shooting a gun with an actual hammer on it is a dying art. If anyone wants to be a better shooter, they should buy a .357 magnum 4" double action revolver and train with it exclusively for a year. That will teach you trigger control, sight alignment, accuracy since ammo is so limited, patience and dexterity when reloading, and also give you an idea of why you need to stop complaining about the "snappiness" of .40. I promise you that anyone who does this will be WAY better of a shooter than they would be otherwise.

Of course, that kind of dedication to learning how to shoot is much, much harder than just complaining about bad triggers and claiming that Glock triggers are "great". :biggrin:
Yes I agree this is a great post, Glock Striker pistols and some others are too easy compared to the old fashioned SA and of course the DA's. learn them, train and you will become a great shot. I shot a S&W Model 19 for years and learned how to react to a situation with a DA pull as you did not always get a chance to go SA with it. When I was able to carry the Automatic I loved Condition 1 cocked and locked. And yes I am an old fart 60ish.
 

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My Sig legion has an amazing defensive trigger.


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So you make this a self-imposed VS thread . BEAUTIFUL ! This an HK forum I could care less about a Sig REGARDLESS of the trigger . Since YOU brought it up !
 
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