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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've never understood the desirability of the P7. I don't have much information about it and was hoping you guys could fill me in on what makes it so fantastic. I understand the squeeze cock bit and I can understand it's value as a collectable as it appears they're no longer imported. But what makes it great as a firearm? And how large is it? Barrel Size is 4in but I've never seen one in person so the pictures may be deceiving. What would you compare it to size-wise - and lastly, how much do they go for? Thanks.
 

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1. Squeeze cocking. IMHO the safest gun for daily carry. The gun goes from perfectly safe to perfectly deadly in a split second. If you drop it you may have a heart attack because it might get scratched but you can rest assured it won't go off. This gun is incredibly fast.

2. Trigger pull. Thanks to the squeeze cocking system the gun is safely equipped with an excellent single action trigger pull. I've had die-hard partisans of every type of gun praise my P7's trigger.

3. Compact. Although it has full-size controls (no pinky hang), the gun is sized like a compact approaching a subcompact. It is much thinner than almost any handgun.(1.1-1.2 inches).

4. Full-size barrel. Despite this gun's compact size it has a full 4-inch barrel.

5. Fixed-barrel. This gun lacks the tilting barrel assembly of most other full-sized guns. This lends the gun exceptional accuracy. In combination with the aforementioned trigger, this barrel makes the P7 ultra-accurate.

6. Low recoil. This is debatable. I have always felt that this has the least recoil of any 9mm. Some disagree, most don't. This is likely result of the guns low bore/axis and gas system (although some say the gas system should have no effect).

7. Tough! This gun is CNC milled from a solid steel forging. The gun is so solid it could be used as a nasty set of brass knuckles in a pinch. Without picking one up it is hard to imagine how solid this little gun feels. When I had mine hardchromed the smith complained endlessly about how hard the P7 was to machine.

8. Excellent sight radius. Although the gun is short, HK maximized the sight radius by pushing the sights as far apart as practically possible.

9. Oddball manual of arms confuses bad guys and know it all buddies. There are many accounts of cops loosing their P7's to bad guys who were, in turn, unable to figure out the squeeze cocker. On the lighter side, a know it all at a local gunshop had just explained to all of his bad experiences with the P7 when I handed it to him only to watch him fumble around unable to cock it! Hilarious.

10. Chamber fluting allows the gun to function even if the extractor is broken. This feature really makes you think when you are trying to determine which gun you want to bet you life on (no offense, but this a much more serious advantage than being able to freeze the gun in a bucket of ice or whatever).

11. Easily childproofed. The P7's striker can be removed without tools (and without any other disassembly of the gun). The striker can be re-inserted into the gun in roughly 1 second. This could be a major consideration to those of us with small children and stupid friends.

12. Ambidextrous. With the exception of the slide catch and take down buttons, every model of the P7 is completely ambidextrous.

13. Ultra-fast magazine release. This has to be experienced to be understood. Rambo types complained about the PSP’s lack of rapid magazine release. HK, Germans that they are, decided to give them what they wanted—a magazine that ejects so fast and powerfully that they could be used as back-up projectiles in an emergency.

14. Ultra fast slide release. Simply squeeze the handle and the slide will be released.

15. 110 degree grip angle gives the gun natural pointability. 110 degree grip angle makes the gun point just like you finger.

16. Low profile slide. The P7’s low profile slide means that there is very little recoiling mass relative to the frame. This, along with the above mentioned 110-degree grip angle makes reacquiring targets a breeze with the P7.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That was pretty thorough. So basically... best carry pistol ever. Makes sense now. So... why don't they make them anymore? You'd figure it would make sense to bring them back into production. Also, the nice ones are pricey but I've seen some Grade B ones selling at good prices. How much does it cost to refinish a gun like that?
 

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Greg said it all.
You need to fire one to truly understand how great the P7 is.

Go to Shore Shot Pistol Range in Lakewood NJ and rent one. The have some police trade in's that you can rent and try out.

http://www.shoreshotpistolrange.com/
 

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Sauce,

If you ever figure out what motivates H&K's marketing decisions you let us know! They are freaking harder to figure out than the moodiest woman wrapped in a calculus problem.

Honestly, HK is an engineering company that makes firearms. They are focused on military and police contracts, and the era of the P7 in that arena is over.
 

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Sauce,
They are focused on military and police contracts, and the era of the P7 in that arena is over.
It sure did have one hell of a run! Many people don't realize that the P7 has been out for 27 years.
 

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Just shoot one and you will see the reasons why it is so great and sought after. Enough said. ;)
 

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That was pretty thorough. So basically... best carry pistol ever. Makes sense now. So... why don't they make them anymore?
Aside from police and military contracts, I don't think they ever sold that well for HK.
Sure, a lot of us here have them, but that's to be expected.
It's hard for most people to rationalize spending $1,000 on a P7 when a similar-sized 8+1 9mm like the S&W 3913 was running about half that. The Sig P225 and later P239 are in the same size/capacity class and were always a lot less than a P7.
Without shooting one, people have to assume there is little to be gained by spending twice the money.

Basically-
You have to shoot one to see.
But most have to buy one to get to shoot one.
And most people don't opt to do that.

Besides, they were scarce if you did want one. Since I learned of the P7's existence in 1981, I probably saw less than ten P7s in gunshops over the next 25 years. Shops don't want to sink a lot of money in stock that might not move easy, and people can't buy what they can't find.
 

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I work for a Department that still issues P7 M13s!!!! It will be a sad day when the glocks take over.
Cherish the time you have with your M13!!



Sauce, you really need to shoot one to fully appreciate what Greg outlined above...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So some of you guys actually carry and shoot this thing? I assumed you all keep them as safe queens. I'm gonna start looking into one.
 

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My M13 is packed daily. Never a safe queen, and after almost 10 years I wouldn't trust my life and safety to any other handgun. You must shoot one to appreciate it.
 

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1. Squeeze cocking. IMHO the safest gun for daily carry. The gun goes from perfectly safe to perfectly deadly in a split second. If you drop it you may have a heart attack because it might get scratched but you can rest assured it won't go off. This gun is incredibly fast.

2. Trigger pull. Thanks to the squeeze cocking system the gun is safely equipped with an excellent single action trigger pull. I've had die-hard partisans of every type of gun praise my P7's trigger.

3. Compact. Although it has full-size controls (no pinky hang), the gun is sized like a compact approaching a subcompact. It is much thinner than almost any handgun.(1.1-1.2 inches).

4. Full-size barrel. Despite this gun's compact size it has a full 4-inch barrel.

5. Fixed-barrel. This gun lacks the tilting barrel assembly of most other full-sized guns. This lends the gun exceptional accuracy. In combination with the aforementioned trigger, this barrel makes the P7 ultra-accurate.

6. Low recoil. This is debatable. I have always felt that this has the least recoil of any 9mm. Some disagree, most don't. This is likely result of the guns low bore/axis and gas system (although some say the gas system should have no effect).

7. Tough! This gun is CNC milled from a solid steel forging. The gun is so solid it could be used as a nasty set of brass knuckles in a pinch. Without picking one up it is hard to imagine how solid this little gun feels. When I had mine hardchromed the smith complained endlessly about how hard the P7 was to machine.

8. Excellent sight radius. Although the gun is short, HK maximized the sight radius by pushing the sights as far apart as practically possible.

9. Oddball manual of arms confuses bad guys and know it all buddies. There are many accounts of cops loosing their P7's to bad guys who were, in turn, unable to figure out the squeeze cocker. On the lighter side, a know it all at a local gunshop had just explained to all of his bad experiences with the P7 when I handed it to him only to watch him fumble around unable to cock it! Hilarious.

10. Chamber fluting allows the gun to function even if the extractor is broken. This feature really makes you think when you are trying to determine which gun you want to bet you life on (no offense, but this a much more serious advantage than being able to freeze the gun in a bucket of ice or whatever).

11. Easily childproofed. The P7's striker can be removed without tools (and without any other disassembly of the gun). The striker can be re-inserted into the gun in roughly 1 second. This could be a major consideration to those of us with small children and stupid friends.

12. Ambidextrous. With the exception of the slide catch and take down buttons, every model of the P7 is completely ambidextrous.

13. Ultra-fast magazine release. This has to be experienced to be understood. Rambo types complained about the PSP’s lack of rapid magazine release. HK, Germans that they are, decided to give them what they wanted—a magazine that ejects so fast and powerfully that they could be used as back-up projectiles in an emergency.

14. Ultra fast slide release. Simply squeeze the handle and the slide will be released.

15. 110 degree grip angle gives the gun natural pointability. 110 degree grip angle makes the gun point just like you finger.

16. Low profile slide. The P7’s low profile slide means that there is very little recoiling mass relative to the frame. This, along with the above mentioned 110-degree grip angle makes reacquiring targets a breeze with the P7.
That pretty much sums it up. Just go get one! :)
 

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Best pistol ever. In every class I've ever taken, everyone looks down their noses at it, until they try it. Then everyone's a convert... until they hear the price. Then only the hardest of the hard-core will drop the big bucks to get it.

I'm no great shakes as a pistol shot, but I almost always place first or second in the end-of-day qualifications. It's not due to skill, it's due almost all to the gun. There's just no better gun for daily carry and high-stress use than a P7.

The thing that killed the P7 in the US market was the price and the lack of availability. I bought my M8 way back when they were $849 new (1989) and everyone I shot with thought I was a psycho for spending so much on a "little 9mm". It was the first one I ever saw in person, and it took me about 4.5 milliseconds to make the decision to buy it.

Simply put, it was the best gun purchase I ever made, or probably ever will. You know that old Tina Turner song "You're simply the best"? That about sums up the P7 as a PDW for concealed carry.
 

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So some of you guys actually carry and shoot this thing? ...
Uh, I bought a P7 (and a backup, shortly thereafter) specifically because it was so well-suited to safe and effective carry. Almost unique in many ways; Greg Bell summarized it well. Also really very very pleasant to shoot.

Plus, it reeks of quality when you handle and work with it, unlike a lot of recently-produced, mass-market crapola with go-fast styling and "special editions", etc. Good machinery speaks for itself when you use it or work with it.

Try one, you'll like it!
 
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